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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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aren't they both spanish companies?
Maybe Fixe is selling through Totem? Just a thought.
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G_ram
Sport climber
Saanichton
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
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As far as i know they are two separate companies, just coincidence that two Spanish companies are going to be making them. However, fixe is having the original name and specs; thus still being named Aliens and their website gives no indication they will be selling offsets. Totems are called 'Basic Cams' it looks like and have been modified slightly leading me to also believe there will be two companies selling aliens in Spain soon.
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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Justin01,
This's Mikel from Totem. It has nothing to do with Fixes Aliens.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
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Donno but clearly Totem is shipping aliens to the us oct 3rd! WOOT!
Offsets too!!!
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:19pm PT
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Looks at the strength ratings. 1000 lbs difference and lower on the new Green
Green CCH = 2500
Green Totem = 1573
Yellow CCH = 2700
Yellow Totem = 2023
Red CCH = 2700
Red Totem = 2472
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
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The Totem ratings are on CE test conditions (1/4 cam closure).
CCH Alien ratings are on 80% cam closure conditions.
That's the difference.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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That, and Totem and Fixe being in the EU means q/c will likely actually happen.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:19pm PT
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Depends on whether they intend on sell in the EU, Joseph. IIRC, if they only sell to outside the EU they don't need the certification and can pretty much do whatever they want. Perhaps Mikel can clarify on this point? Also, the copy of the UIAA spec I have says the test is done at both 75% closure and 25% closure, which differs a bit from what Mikel posted a bit ago (which was only the 25% closure case). Perhaps you (Mikel) can comment on that as well? The copy I have is En12278:1998.
Regardless, I have no doubt about either company putting out quality product and very much look forward to them being on the market again.
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:30am PT
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Adatesman is right. CE tests (or UIAA, the test are the same) are for %25 and %75 cam closure. The poorest results in strength are obtained always with %25 cam closure, where at small sizes, lobes overcamming happens.
About to sell only outside EU without CE certification I suppose Adatesman is right again. As far as I know, all European manufacturers get the CE certification and they sale in Europe and outside Europe.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:57am PT
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Thank you Mikel for taking the time to converse with us.
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dr_climber
Trad climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:08am PT
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Wow... one post and it's spam. Nice G_ram!
You're an idiot. The links were 100% on topic.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:01am PT
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Sounds to me like they are likely at least getting parts from the same sub-contractor if not getting the while units the the same folks with a few vendor specific mods.
Too bad no black, blue, grey, gold, or orange yet.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:09am PT
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This's Mikel from Totem. It has nothing to do with Fixes Aliens.
Except that they are a complete ripoff.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:14am PT
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ElCap wrote:
Probably because they were using off-the-shelf cable eye terminations as heads for the cam......
Interesting..... Never heard that before and rather surprising given I've literally spent weeks looking for close head swage sockets like that. Everything I found with a 1/4" hole had a head with at least 1/2" diameter around the hole. I'd be very interested to know where they got them, if you happen to know such things....
-aric.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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Except that they are a complete ripoff.
Ripoffs tend to be of lesser quality.
Can you explain how Totem is ripping off Fixe who purchased a company with a patent that has already expired?
Did Dmm ripoff BD with their color scheme on the dragons?
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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There sure is a lot of mis-information on this thread.
I am not in a position to speak to most of it out of respect for my good friend KD and a lack of hard knowledge on certain details.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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I say again, you cannot "Ripoff" a design which has had it's PATENT expire.
Kd at Fixe must be sweatin bullets there eh Cinch?
Best knott drop your load of Knowledge on the target group here.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Like I said I don't have all the details, just want everyone to be patient until Kevin decides to release info in the states....
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Jul 29, 2011 - 04:49pm PT
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While VERY similar, the Totem Basic "aliens" are not exactly the same as the Fixe CCH Aliens. Totem looks to have changed a few things, INCLUDING SIZING to add their touch on them. People may or may not like those changes and choose to go with the Fixe Aliens which appear to be a 1:1 clone of the originals.
Note that Mikel pointed out their Red is NOT the exact same as the legacy CCH Red. It's a bit smaller so there's no longer the "size gap" between legacy yellow and red (and the reason CCH made a gray). I haven't had time to check the other sizes yet...
I kind of like the sizing choices and paring down of the regular and offset sizes to one set of 5 (for now).
The good news is both companies have a track record for quality.
Hopefully this will speed up the info release from Fixe.
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mapeze
climber
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Mucci,
The "Alien Cams" is a US registered trademark (maybe also in Europe, I don't know), so no climbing cam or climbing gear can be commercialized in US under this trademark without the permission of the owner of the trademark. The trademark does not expire (while you pay the fees and you use it).
The Basic Cam, while using the design with expired patents, is commercialized with a completely different name, so it is completely legal.
When someone patents a design, he owns the right to commercially explode this design for a period of time (around 20 years). When this period of time expires, anyone can use this design. This is in favor of the evolution of the technical state. In fact, the Basic Cams incorporate some changes over the last Alien Cam design, with the aim to improve it.
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