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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
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I'm simply ridiculing the idea that just because they have the legal right to appeal, and are availing themselves of it, "everything is working just the way it should."
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Gene
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 07:02pm PT
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The legal system is working as it should. REI has the right to appeal adverse rulings they disagree with. So does anyone else including Bernie Madoff, Charles Manson and the Unabomber.
Not to put too fine a point on this, but I suspect that Bernie and Ted K cannot file appeals under the terms of their plea deals with the Feds.
I understand your point.
g
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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Obviously "everything" did not work just the way it should, or this wouldn't have happened.
If you borrow a friends No. 4 Camalot and drop it of the tenth pitch of Royal Arches, the honorable thing is to apologize and buy him a new one. But if you want to be a complete bastard you can tell him to sue you in small claims and then try to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. You are within your legal rights to do so, but that does not make it morally right, nor will it win you new friends.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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May 19, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
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Not much in a Boardroom, either. ANY Boardroom.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 19, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
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REI should have taken care of this member's medical bills, then gone after the manufacturer for any additional claims. The title of this thread is dead on. REI shirked its responsibility.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
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Gene, check the headlines. Ted K. filed some papers with a court just last week. He's now a suspect in the 1982 Tylenol poisonings.
Also, it's possible to file appeals attempting to set aside plea bargains, but there chances of succeeding is unlikely.
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Gene
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 07:35pm PT
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GC,
We're way OT here but I like to understand these kind of things. I thought Ted K’s recent filings were to prevent the Feds from auctioning his things. Hopefully someone much smarter than me will weigh in.
Of course, any filings made by Ted regarding Tylenol are beyond the scope of his plea bargain.
Cheers,
g
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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Many of us have cams from respected companies such as Black Diamond, Wild Country or Metolius. Pretend that the next time you are out climbing, the axle of one of these cams fails under body weight. Analysis reveals that the axle was defective. The manufacturer accepts the analysis enough to issue a recall.
How would you expect the manufacturer to handle the situation:
1. Apologize for distributing defective cams and offer to replace your's.
2. Tell you that although they hold themselves out as "making" the cam and sell it under their brand, they are not truly the manufacturer. Explain that they are just outsourcing production of the parts to the lowest bidders and assembling them. The axle was made by some sweatshop in an Asian country which undercut the next prospective supplier by 20%. Claim that they are not responsible and that you need to go after the sweatshop that made the axle.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 19, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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Corporations are not people. They are legal constructs. There is no humanity on a piece of paper.
DMT
It is true that a corporation is a legal construct. So are things like your "rights" under the constitution. Purely legal constructs, nothing more.
The fact that a corporation is a juristic entity is largely irrelevant to whether it is good, bad, legally responsible for certain conduct, whatever.
By the way, a "partnership" is also a legal construct. Those lacking humanity too?
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Gene
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
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I couldn't agree more with the two most recent posts from DMT and GC.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 19, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
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^ ^
Nope, just checking if two or more people acting in concert lack humanity.
Seems to me that acting in groups is an fundamental characteristic, but glad you cleared things up again.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
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We're way OT here but I like to understand these kind of things. I thought Ted K’s recent filings were to prevent the Feds from auctioning his things. Hopefully someone much smarter than me will weigh in.
Of course, any filings made by Ted regarding Tylenol are beyond the scope of his plea bargain
Gene, you're right about Ted K's recent filing. But I found this.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00626.htm
A sentencing appeal waiver provision does not waive all claims on appeal. The courts of appeals have held that certain constitutional and statutory claims survive a sentencing appeal waiver in a plea agreement. For example, a defendant's claim that he or she was denied the effective assistance of counsel at sentencing, United States v. Attar, supra; that he or she was sentenced on the basis of race, United States v. Jacobson, 15 F.3d 19 (2d Cir. 1994); or that the sentence exceeded the statutory maximum, United States v. Marin, 961 F.2d 493, 496 (4th Cir. 1992), will be reviewed on the merits by a court of appeals despite the existence of a sentencing appeal waiver in a plea agreement.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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Next up is to sell tickets to executions as well as Prison Sex Reality TV.
This auction is completely misguided - the theater of the absurd. Maybe they should auction photos of the carnage?
DMT
DMT nails it. How tacky is that?
How would people react if the government started auctioning off the stuff they captured in the Bin Laden raid on the excuse of raising funds for the 9/11 victims?
This may be thread drift, but it's interesting thread drift.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 19, 2011 - 07:59pm PT
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No DMT, contracts are simply the mechanism by which we set forth legally binding obligations with one another.
Corporations and other legal entities exist because society has found that encouraging forms of collective action promotes the common good.
But this looks like one of your "religious" issues, so no reason to get into it.
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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May 19, 2011 - 08:10pm PT
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The sad thing (besides her passing) is that she wasn't asking all that much from them in the first place; just reimbursement for expenses. It sure got out of control fast. I'll bet the billing for phone time from the lawyers alone surpassed her request.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 19, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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James, you are jumping to conclusions.
According to what's been posted above, she claimed to suffer a disability that prevented her from working (perhaps permanently), and she wanted to be compensated for that. While that may be perfectly reasonable, I don't know how any of you conclude that she was just asking for peanuts.
It's been alleged that she spent a considerable amount of money out-of-pocket to have the bike tested--that's not consistent with a small demand.
So far we've seen the insurance company blamed (without a shred of evidence that an insurance company has even been involved in this case) and the lawyers (who may in fact be at least patially blameworthy--after all, they've lost at both the trial and appellate level so far).
But as long as we're just making stuff up, I'd throw out another profession as the likely wrongerdoers: accountants.
Yep, it's the bean counters who make the important decisions in most businesses today. Probably fair to blame them for the collapse of American industry, corporate shenanigans, and pretty much everything else wrong with America.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
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According to what's been posted above, she claimed to suffer a disability that prevented her from working (perhaps permanently), and she wanted to be compensated for that.
I haven't seen any cash amount listed anywhere, so I wonder whether any verdict was issued. If not, and it still needs to be issued, I wonder if it will take into account Johnson's death in the skiing accident. Because of the accident, supporting her "for the rest of her life" would presumably be a lot less expensive.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 10:03pm PT
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how is dying when a cornice breaks off causally connected to a bike accident?
No one has claimed that it was causally connected. But now that you ask this, I wonder if it's possible that the brain damage in the bicycle accident led to her having impaired judgment.
ranting but I'm in hawaii drinking my balls off and fishing LOL.
LOL!
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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May 19, 2011 - 10:15pm PT
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I haven't read all of the posts, but from reading page one I'm a little bothered that people are so quick to spew such venom at REI when their level of fault is unclear. It is clear, however, that the manufacturer is to blame. I guess REI is an easy target because, for many here, all big corporations are evil. Seems like the venom should be more directed at the known bad guy. I see no reason to pass such judgment on REI from I've read so far.
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
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the bike fiasco left her
1. some head trauma, potentially impaired judgement
2. needing to wear a full face helmet, potentially reducing her field of view when she was on Red Mtn
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