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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bishop
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Feb 27, 2019 - 08:39pm PT
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Like I said, a question mark and I’m going on possibly, flawed memory of the quote which I think I read here somewhere. Maybe MS will put me in my place.......At any rate, good to see the pics because some may have disappeared along with deleted threads. Had an email exchange with KS about “ Grace under Pressure” which is a cool looking line and glad to hear it come up. It is still one of the few left on Stately ( or TM for that matter)that hasn’t been rebolted (at least as of last summer)yet and Kurt said he thought it hadn’t had a second ascent yet. I got a bit excited to revive it but one of TM’s slabmasters told me he’d done the second. There it sits waiting for those who still like to climb over old bolts and awaits replacement. Cool Aldude! Thanks for the history, the best thing about this place. I wish I were there to bare witness and participate when this was the game.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Feb 27, 2019 - 08:47pm PT
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Onsight stance drilling FAs harder than 11c - as aldude points out, can be and does get done. I don't think it's really that rare.
Perhaps there are more pertinent factors than pure difficulty?
Compare a 12b/c short crux that has a good stance right before it on an otherwise easier route to a continuous 40m pitch with the biggest holds only a sprinkling of 1/4" and few moves under 11a or over 12a.
Which is the harder GU onsight FA?
On one if you're good at bouldering you may well be home free at 12b/c. The other... you're in for some real work if it's a true step off the ground and go until it's done, without taints.
Seems silly to take any number and make it into some kind of holy grail whereafter GU onsight FA can't be done. Too many variables from the route characteristics to the climbers involved.
Edit: "GU onsight" sounds kind of redundant but I guess it still makes contextual sense - there's a difference between plain "GU" and "GU onsight". But what's the alternative to GU? "TD onsight FA"? That makes no sense. So maybe using "onsight" is enough since by definition it implies GU and excludes TD. This is getting too deep.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bishop
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Feb 27, 2019 - 09:06pm PT
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^^^^^^ absolutely agree. Continuous stance drilling by hand on sustained climbing is hard, regardless of numbers. I think #’s left from then represent maybe an average of the difficulty back then and of course the yds system may have changed too (at least between sport and how yds was originally used)? The numbers for me are just that, a measurement and they seem to have averaged out fairly well, at least in TM and the Valley as to what climbing you can expect with any given climb from that era. But I think when sport climbing hit, it caused/influenced changed yds numbers ? It always interested me when the Valley climbing scene was put down as being behind the times in the 80’s when it seemed that the games were just different . Climbs like Southern Belle etc. remain to show us that difference. How many have climbed it? Yes there are those still climbing g.u.-on-site by hand from stances but power and larger numbers are hard to pass up. I would rather leave numbers of any FA I put up for others to decide but people want to know what to expect. That’s if you care or not if people repeat them. But love to hear the history. That’s why so many question marks. So someone will answer what I don’t know.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Feb 27, 2019 - 09:57pm PT
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Sometimes the stances are the crux !
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bishop
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Feb 27, 2019 - 10:58pm PT
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^^^^^^There it is! We get caught up in numbers when they have nothing to do with it. I would say that stances are not just sometimes “the crux”, they’re everything. That’s the game! Your just trying to survive from stance to stance and what’s in between is just trying to get there. Numbers are the last thing your thinking about. Which goes to what henny said. “If it’s a true step off and go”..... Lots of facets to it but what it really comes down to is stances. They’re linked islands of survival and your navigating uncharted waters to link them. You’ve cast off into outer space, into the unknown. They’re the decider in the progression. Numbers and ego disappear because your just trying to survive and that’s the beauty of that game. Numbers are for after and only enter into it when/if you want to share a partiality of that experience because no-one can repeat the initial experience nor put a number to it. Numbers are a communal bi-product and afterthought.
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bob
climber
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Nice thread. Great pics Tony. The commentary has been entertaining for sure.
I just returned from a southern AZ exploratory mission that lasted the whole week. We saw some great possibilities, as well as some great let downs that were exciting possibilities. Good times.
So, yesterday I started up what ended as being an easier 5.10 route that I was on lead establishing. I had the intention (and followed through with it) of bolting it on lead from stances without hanging. (With a power drill legally. The horror!) My ego demanded that I follow that particular style of FA.
After drilling the third bolt I stepped up on a hold and blew the bolt hole out with my tube thingy. As I was stepping back down to the bigger stance from which I was to install the bolt from, the foot hold I was depending on blew. Thus it was to be. To the deck I went. I haven’t hit the deck since 93’.
My back is not what it was the day before but I will mend. That said, I am now in a place where I am questioning why the hell I was doing what I was doing the way I was doing it.
My mind is now thinking hard about this experience and I’m no stranger to putting it on the line FA stancedrilling style with hand drills etc.
I just figured it out actually! I had to pay up for using a power drill.
Peace out ST. Keep it rolling!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Longer blow tube?
:-)
Glad you're okay.
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bob
climber
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I’d prefer it be called a longer blow tube thingy. :) I normally use a longer one and simply grabbed the wrong one. Ugh. Ok, I payed the piper because I used a power drill and a short blow thingy. Thanks ksolem for the kind words. I’ll be good to go with some rolling around on my rubber ball thingy.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bishop
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Blow tube? What’s that? Gosh Bob, glad your OK and hope to see you soon. Welcome back from the dark side.......
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bob
climber
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Back from the dark side. No sh#t, eh Tony?!? Whew, I’m lucky! Though, I think I’m in the grey side cataplexy (<<<<Category is what I meant but that word cataplexy is rad!!.).
Ir like you to know that it wasn’t my drill. I never bought one, but...... ;-)
Back out that way end of the month. I’m give you a shout for sure. Hope you’re healing well.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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After drilling the third bolt I stepped up on a hold and blew the bolt hole out with my tube thingy. As I was stepping back down to the bigger stance from which I was to install the bolt from, the foot hold I was depending on blew. Thus it was to be. To the deck I went. I haven’t hit the deck since 93’.
Hope you are ok. Maybe it was an easier section, but as a general rule if you come off just before clipping the third bolt, I would hope that the second bolt would catch you.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I tried to find a picture of Dancing in the Light. I got up to Squamish 3 or 4 times. I remember it as a great route. Do they still climb moderately hard slabs up there or has the lichen taken back over?
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bob
climber
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^^^^^^. Did The way I write it come off as though the second bolt didn’t catch me? After drilling the hole for the third bolt I stepped up higher to blow out the hole that was to be filled with the third bolt. Second bolt caught me. I still hit the turf. I just didn’t hit as hard as I would have if it didn’t catch most of it.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Breedlove's basics for beginners, n00bs, gymsters and journalists.
Roger knows slabs.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 13, 2019 - 07:43pm PT
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On D.R.'s Facebook page.
Doug has a thing going on in Mammoth Saturday night. Check out the page.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 13, 2019 - 07:57pm PT
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Unclimbed slab in Patagonia...will likely go with Crocs...get on it!
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