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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Speaking of the bad old days, Jack Brabham was the only driver to win an F1 championship in a car his own company built (and he largely designed). 1966.
And Jimmy Clark who put Lotus on the F1 map. 2 F1 championships, 25 wins. Won Indy in 1965
And Colin Chapman who revolutionized F1 engine and chassis engineering. Started Lotus cars.
Chapman struts, fiberglass body, monocoque construction, V8 F1 engines (with Ford and Cosworth)
Brought the concepts of the wing and ground effect to Formula racing.
At $500K per lap for machines that have so little relationship to useful purposes it seems like a hellluva lot of money that could do better things.
At least LeMans 24 hour racing can claim to "improve the breed"
Jaguar, aerodynamic design engineering, disk breaks for starters
high endurance with high power (dry sump lubrication for one)
track and vehicle safety engineering after the 1955 driver/spectator tragedy
high performance diesel engines (1949)
and high performance hybrid drives (electric and mechanical) since 2009.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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At $500K per lap for machines that have so little relationship to useful purposes it seems like a hellluva lot of money that could do better things.
Statements like this get me thinking.
So I ask, Like what for instance?
Joke: How can one make a small fortune????
A: start with a large one and go motor racing.
Roy, OK I'll go dig up the F1 shots I have. I went to all of the LBGP and some in Europe.
Loved the Esses at Riverside, had a 19 year old Mario, crash his stock car before turn 6....He climbed the wall, right where we were at. Wanted some H2O, we had a jug with ICE. I remember we were the same height, even though I was like 11.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Good call High Traverse.
A lot of these guys were not just athletes but also engineers. They were often very sophisticated men and were frequently well spoken individuals.
The conjoining of driver/constructor skills in a single personage is indeed a highly laudable accomplishment.
In that regard one of my favorites has to be Bruce McLaren.
My understanding is that he built his empire essentially from his own race winnings.
Mark Donohue is another that comes to mind who contributed lots of engineering wisdom to the task of preparing his cars.
(Porsche 917/30 comes to mind)
Not F1 specific but also Jim Hall and Chaparral: he designed, built and raced his own cars.
And Henri Pescarolo is still at it, once a prodigious F1 driver (64 F1 GP's, beginning in 1968) and still building Le Mans prototype cars today!
*Guy: Andretti in your lap at turn six ... good one! Yes turn six at Riverside was a fantastic spectating position!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Okay gearheads, if you haven't this is a must read about Phil Hill and the 1961 F1/GP season:
A concise and very well written account getting right into the headspace of the much esteemed Phil Hill.
This guy had a phenomenal talent for embracing the limits of man and machine.
From Amazon:
In THE LIMIT, Michael Cannell tells the enthralling story of Phil Hill-a lowly California mechanic who would become the first American-born driver to win the Grand Prix-and, on the fiftieth anniversary of his triumph, brings to life a vanished world of glamour, valor, and daring.
With the pacing and vivid description of a novel, THE LIMIT charts the journey that brought Hill from dusty California lots racing midget cars into the ranks of a singular breed of men, competing with daredevils for glory on Grand Prix tracks across Europe. Facing death at every turn, these men rounded circuits at well over 150 mph in an era before seat belts or roll bars-an era when drivers were "crushed, burned, and beheaded with unnerving regularity."
From the stink of grease-smothered pits to the long anxious nights in lonely European hotels, from the tense camaraderie of teammates to the trembling suspense of photo finishes, THE LIMIT captures the 1961 season that would mark the high point of Hill's career. It brings readers up close to the remarkable men who surrounded Hill on the circuit-men like Hill's teammate and rival, the soigné and cool-headed German count Wolfgang Von Trips (nicknamed "Count Von Crash"), and Enzo Ferrari, the reclusive and monomaniacal padrone of the Ferrari racing empire.
Race by race, THE LIMIT carries readers to its riveting and startling climax-the final contest that would decide it all, one of the deadliest in Grand Prix history.
Personally, not really glorifying the whole deadly shtick. It's just the way it was and the whole thing is rather remarkable. This book really underscores just how well Phil Hill was at reading the machine, tuning it, not breaking it ... winning and surviving ... in that order.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Like what for instance?
So you got me thinking.
OK, I got the $500K figure from the first post on this thread.
Here's some Wikipedia data for 2006
The total spending of all eleven teams in 2006 was estimated at $2.9 billion US. And that was 2006
Developing a new pharmaceutical product and bringing it to market is in the range of $5-10 billion.
2-3 GP seasons.
The San Francisco Bay Bridge East Span retrofit, an 11 year construction project: $6.4 billion. A bit more than 2 GP seasons.
An Arleigh Burke class Destroyer $1.8 million. 10 destroyers with enough change left over to train their crews.
2 1/2 years of F1 = 1 year of L.A. County law enforcement for 2014-2015: $7 billion.
FBI 2015 proposed budget: about 2 1/2 F1 years: $8.3 billion.
But hey, F1 is private money and they can do what they wish. It is great fun to watch!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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What was the figure we heard this weekend for one of the teams/constructors who earned their very first points in F1? (Same team wherein one of them took out his teammate at the beginning of the race I believe) .... The commentators said those first points were worth something like $30 or $40 million to the team.
It's always been outrageous. In F1 you can follow the money with most decisions. Then we could get into the whole Bernie Ecclestone thing; I will decline. I'm here for the inspiration which is incalculable.
They realized they had to be leaders so committed to the beginnings of hybridization with regenerative braking and so forth ... Yes, transparently a business decision of course (likely a necessary step for the survival of the breed) but in the big picture it's probably a good thing all around.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Phil Hill, Bruce McClaren and Dan Gurney whose best F1 finish was 4th could drive just about anything.
Jack Brabham, Nikki Lauda, Nelson Piquet, Ayrton Senna, Jackie Stewart (another Flying Scot) had 3 world championships.
Alain Prost, Sebastian Vettel: 4
Fangio.....5!
Schumacher....7!!
Listed by driver
UK has had 14 championships, latest in 2009
Germany 11, last in 2013
US 2, last in 1978
constructons championships
UK: 10 different constructors, 33 championships
Italy: 1 constructor (guess who) and 11 championships
Top three engine makers
Ferrari: 16 championships
Renault: 12
Ford: 10
enough boring trivia
EDIT
Eccelstone.....this is getting interesting.
Hybrid technology: I think that was a political move. However, I believe it will lead to better technology. Flywheel energy storage for instance will be extremely expensive to develop but will give conventional batteries a run for the money when fully debugged for private vehicles. On paper, at the present time, it could be significantly more economical (batteries are still too expensive)
Flywheel storage has been around a long time, there was a prototype London bus in the '60s. Simple but not practical without modern electric motors and control systems.
The way a Prius transmits power could easily be replaced by flywheel storage.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Hybrid technology: I think that was a political move.
Yes, a political move. That's what I meant by: likely a necessary step for the survival of the breed.
But then, this is a climber's forum and that topic has a way of …inciting stampede around here. Ha ha. Hack, cough. Runaway! hahahaha
Looking forward to seeing Guy's archival photos of F1 from Long Beach and Europe!
Yeah baby! Formula One appreciation!!!
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Had the holy grail.... Couple years back Kelly and I went to Italy, long story short, only place I WANTED to go was Maranello, visit Ferrari. Connection of ours got us in the front door, connection got us a factory floor tour....no photos allowed ANYWHERE on the factory property. Thought the killer tour was over, then we get on a small bus with our rep, we get dropped off at the Maranello track....the F1 facility! We get to go through the team setup garage, into the track garage and then into the warehouse where all the retired cars are housed, Schumacher, Barrichello, Berger, Lauda, etc, etc, ect. It was my day in heaven.
Peace
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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For the longest time I have been fascinated with F1. I can remember back in the late '70's and early '80's comparing the Indy car with the F1 I clearly saw that they were getting it done better in Europe and elsewhere in Grand Prix Formula 1 racing, . Faster, the more intense battles were brewing across the ocean and I could see it.
As the years passed I would pay attention with less focus, but still keep an eye on what was happening in the F1 world along the lines of aero/engine/suspension improvements... because that sh#t is just interesting as all hell...
We all know the names in the sport; Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, and Williams just to name the mains....
Funny that Audi is not on the list... They have a pretty solid racing team... Geared specifically toward the 24 hours of Le Mans (really the first test of engineering magic)...
Most fascinating
Just a couple vids to show a little thin'
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Not that it's F1.. But it's the technology [Click to View YouTube Video]
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:15am PT
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Ron Gomez scores! ... AND takes the checkered flag!!!
Sweet group of pictures Ron.
Concerning this one :
"Roy The Boy Toy's" Italian pit girl
Okay, … admittedly the cigars may be a bit over the top.
… But she harbors a mean Salame sotto Grasso, the aroma of her Aceto Balsamico Tradizionale di Modena is to die for and she can really pop the cork on your Vino da Tavola!
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Jun 10, 2014 - 09:06am PT
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I sure am thankful for DVRs. I used to need to get up at 4am to watch F1 but now I can watch whenever I have the time. I rarely even miss a qualifying session now.
I don't really like the sound of the new engines, they sound too much like my WRX, but I like the way they drive. It's nice to see the drivers needing to put their skills to use to keep the beasts going in a straight line. And with the on-board cameras it is a really good view and you can actually see how hard the cars are to drive.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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Here's a collection of Grand Prix drivers from the late 60s and early 70s.
All ripped from the Internet. Apologies for lack of attribution: these are stunning portraits and very revealing.
Jim Clark, Monaco 1967
Piers Courage in a BRM, 1968
Jarno Saarinen and wife Soili Karme, 1972
(actually a GP bike racer and I love the candid emotion here)
Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill
Sally Courage and Bruce McLaren, Monza 1969
James Hunt, Monaco 1974
Jo Bonnier
Vic Elford, 1972
Françoise Hardy wearing Pete Aron's helmet: Aaron a fictional character from the movie Grand Prix, 1966
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snyd
Sport climber
Lexington, KY
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Jun 10, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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Racing is cool.
I grew up in Indy. I've attended more than 20 500s, all the F1 races that they had in Indy, and every MotoGP race they've had.
The 500 is a shadow of it's 70s self.
I took this picture of racing legend and 1978 Formula One World Champion, Mario Andretti when I was in 7th grade at Indy. It was carb day and the paddock was open.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 10, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
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front end of 2007 honda Accord whose front end spoiler was lifted almost directly from a Ferrari Enzo, which had been lifted from.... from cars that need control at 100+ mph speeds.
The front end spoiler is essentially non-functional for domestic cars. Do you see them on semi trailer tractors where appearance is less important than function and cost?
Didn't have one on my '63 XKE that was solid at 130mph. (got a little goosey above 130)
Sure, GP racing has made technological innovations. They would have been made anyway in sports car racing.
but HEY, F1 racing IS a blast. I'd love to see a race live.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:56am PT
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Loic Duval - Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro - Le Mans 2014 - Crashed
[Click to View YouTube Video]
There's still risk in motorsport...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 16, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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Sir James Hunt.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Aug 16, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
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Assuming Lewis doesn't have his car die too many more times I think he will take it all. He has certainly shown a huge amount of drive the last couple races coming from the back of the field to place well and lose very few points to Nico.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 16, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
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We will see.....
Pretty even steven deal so far.
Looks like a whole lot rides with reliability, as always.
The last two races, I thought were some of the best to watch, but driving on the wet- dry - wet-dry must really suck.
Good for the fans.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 22, 2014 - 07:15am PT
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Spa! Go Rosberg!
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!