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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
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I see what you are getting at, Trump.
And I appreciate the importance of understanding the shoes others have to walk in when making decisions.
But I am not alone in perceiving this heavy handedness as over-the-top.
Ergo, I don't understand it as a management tactic.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
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Ha!
Exactly.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Oct 16, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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Has anyone talked to Warbler and asked if he saved digital copies of his climbing content posts?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
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He hasn't, but I saved some of the threads that he contributed to.
I haven't archived too many individual posts from people, but a random smattering of the better threads I have in PDF and various browser archiving formats.
Sometimes I've taken screenshots of people's posts, other times copied them into Word documents. Not very organized, but I've got some stuff.
Most of the good stuff would in the future get extracted right out of the threads themselves, as saved in their entirety.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
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Here are some examples, simple screenshots for now, of some early saves I did in 2009, featuring both Cosgrove and Worrall, whose posts no longer exist.
Cosgrove talking about climbing the crux of Mother Earth, Middle Cathedral, From Clint Cummins' thread, Mother Earth – stories and photos from the first ascent:
Here's a simple extraction of Cosgrove's post:
I climbed the second ascent of the Smith Crawford. It shares the 11c crux of Mother Earth. I remember that 11c being full on 12a, with terrible bolts. Basically 12a x. Kurt was happy to follow and I was scared to death.
The area the two climbs goes up, is well featured, and has lots of places for some good gear. Me and the Kid thought the climbing to be some of the best we had ever done, still do.
We wanted to come back and do Mother Earth but after the bad bolt's on Space Babble and Mother Earths cruxs, we opted out.
I always wanted to go back, great hearing of the old adventures, and the photo's are killing me.
Thanks to all involved in replacing the bolts.
Kevin Worrall holding forth about Mother Earth:
And Kevin's post, extracted:
Seeing those photos again reminds me of a wild experience I had in those parts a couple of years ago...
I don't get up to the Valley much lately, between the house, the kid, and the climbing in my backyard. But I did bust loose for a week or so and checked a few things out.
We left San Diego at around 9 PM and bivied off the side of I5 in the hills north of Newhall. We woke up on a little dirt road that obviously served as the local dump site. My buddy, Dave found a Fergie disc and an Eminem disc in the bush that morning, and we split our ghetto bivi rockin to "My Humps".
Our goal was to arrive in the Valley in time to hike up the gunsight and summit Lower Rock that afternoon. Have a little look around.
We parked along the river under Beggars' Buttress around 2:00. Our packs were already packed, so we got right on it. I wanted to walk the base of Lower and check out the Mecca routes I had heard so much about. I expected more bolts per pitch, as the routes were always described to me as sport climbs. But they looked pretty sporty to me, and good.
The Gunsight was a kick, as always. I love the way the rock structure up there allows you to climb unroped up steep intimidating sections that would be crazy on most Valley rock. The walls on both sides of the Gunsight are amazingly beautiful - so much color and texture.
As we scrambled up the backside of Lower from the Gunsight proper, we stopped often to gawk at the huge wall of MCR that Mother Earth climbs. So much rock, so many features.
The fast paced hike had made us sweat hard, and we were both shirtless as we made our way higher. During our climb, a huge dark storm had formed over the crest of the Sierra, and in our distraction with the terrain in front of us, we hadn't noticed until we almost reached the summit of Lower Rock.
With the afternoon sun on our backs, and not a cloud in the sky over the Central Valley, the wind began to howl in our faces, and big, cold raindrops began splattering all over our bare skin. All of Tenaya Canyon and Half Dome was being engulfed in dark roiling clouds. A rainbow appeared arching over the summit of Lower.
As we neared the summit I was amazed to see the rainbow double and then triple up, and when standing on the highest point, even more amazed to see the rainbows making nearly a complete circle, with the only missing section being where the narrow shadow cast by Lower Rock broke the spectrum. The pointy top of Lower's shadow where we stood was dead center.
The southern end of the arc plunged into the Merced at the base of the DNB, and the North end into the center of El Cap meadow. The Salathe Wall was shining with warm gold light, and the spectrum above the meadow blazed down through the center of the deep black shadow cast in the NA Wall recess by The Nose, just to make it more dramatic.
The rain continued to splatter in our faces, and the sun beamed on our backs as we beheld what was maybe the most spectacular scene I had ever witnessed in Yosemite.
Then, the wind became more intense, and suddenly it seemed that all the deciduous trees along the base of the North Face Apron and up the Gunsight gave up their autumn foliage at once, thousands of giant leaves began rising on on the updrafts between us and Middle Rock, swirling and fluttering like a huge flock of yellow birds, climbing up the giant wall that Mother Earth climbs, over the top of Middle, and away.
It was truly an incredible experience, heightened by the fact I hadn't seen Yosemite for a few years. From the ghetto bivi in the morning to that outrageous display of nature in the afternoon... it was sensory overload. I felt that I had been welcomed back in a big way.
Mother Earth is the perfect name for that buttress...
(Some of you youngsters outta get on it!)
KW
Usually before posting something like this up, I would crop it in Photoshop to make it more legible. They look fine on my screen. I could crop these to help the readability.
Also, if I host these on photobucket, which I've strayed from lately because it's so horrible, I could size them much better for the reader.
Anyhow, you get the idea. I have the threads up to whatever point I saved them, and text can easily be extracted, as I've just illustrated.
BTW, this is from a thread started by Clint Cummins, who copied a bunch of stuff from the Welcome to Kevin Worrall thread, and started an independent thread on Mother Earth.
This tells me that Clint probably has a bunch of stuff archived in various formats?
........................................................
Here's the thread from which I extracted the above posts, though those posts from Cosgrove and Worrall are no longer to be seen here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/626619/Mother-Earth-stories-and-photos-from-the-first-ascent
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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Well, thanks, Mr. X,
But for example, I only saved that thread at a point in time when it was up to 40 posts in 2009. It received 28 more posts over the next eight years. (More actually, accounting for the reduction in posts from the deletions.)
None of Kevin or Cosgrove's posts elaborating more about the history would now be accessible, unless someone else did a similar save, but at a later date.
Here is the second and last extract I have from Kevin, once present in those first 40 posts from Clint Cummins' thread, Mother Earth – stories and photos from the first ascent:
Mark,
Those are some nice shots of Max on the second pitch. One of the coolest things about the route is that every pitch up to the seventh kicks up a degree or two more than the previous one. That makes the climbing generally harder, more continuous, and it gives you a nice view down the face to the ground. After all four of us had climbed it, you could see just about every chalked hand hold all the way down to the ledge atop the first pitch you took that picture from.
Back then, before the Smith Crawford was done, there were no other routes anywhere near where we were climbing, so the route felt extra adventurous. I've mentioned a factor about all the climbing on MCR before, or most north facing walls for that matter - the routes look real licheny, grungy even, from the base because you're seeing only the undersides of all the roofs and scoops on the wall. But after climbing a pitch you look down and see the true colors of the rock appear on all the upward facing texture which has been scoured by weather for eons. The foreboding lead you stepped out on, looks instead like a mosaic of bright colors and generous, clean holds. It's always a kick to watch your partner negotiate the pitch from above.
Speaking of the Smith Crawford, I bet a day that started with the first seven pitches of Mother Earth, and then continued up the Smith Crawford would be a good one. I'm sure nobody's done that. More pitches out on the open face - the corners leading to the ledge on ME are easy (after the leap) and pretty dirty.
KW
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 16, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
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Some fine, Hemingway-esque writing there by Mr. Worrall. Bottom line though, this site is most valued as a climbing site. We can enjoy each others’ company in that separate little world of climbing that we enjoy. When we start sharing our thoughts as individuals then we get into both the good and bad about each other, places that our mutual sport doesn’t force us to go, in fact it lets us rise above.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 16, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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That was great reading right there.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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Here is Kevin's first post which appeared on the Welcome to Kevin Worrall thread:
Sep 14, 2006 - 12:16am PT
Talkin' shop on the net sure beats those nights in the smoky mountain room bar or some funky smellin' camper. Roger - those
days on Middle were the best- the adventure, the virgin eversofine stone, that cheshire cat grin on Meyers' face! Kathy, what's a
'69 D18 in OK condition worth for a trade-in? Mike - you've reminded me that on Free Blast we were on a youthfully idealistic
mission to raise the free climbing standards above all (we should have kept going!). Mr. Nay, Blitzo - all you guys - thanks for the
warm welcome.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
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In the realm of literature there are those who don't give a f%$K what Ezra Pound wrote, since his political opinions proved so odious. There are others—a diminishing breed, I suppose, in this era of identity politics—who deplore those opinions even as they revere his poetry. For my part, I can't help reading things as a writer and an author. And after reading the excerpts quoted above, I can only wish Kevin would see his way clear to putting into words between covers his own permanent record of what he has to say about climbing in Yosemite. We—all of us, anyway, who do give a f%$K—should be so very lucky.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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Hey, Roy. It's a good thing you did. Even those little bits are great reading.
I stand by what I said on Kevin's "Welcome" thread, which was that he ought to use the time he's now saving by not posting by writing a book.
His prose recalls Muir in places.
Kevin's a real rock climber, not interested in alpinism. In that, he reminds me of Chuck Pratt.
Yeah, I appreciate Warbler. And I'd love to meet him some day.
All the best to you, Kev, if you're lurking.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
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I'd rather hear Warblee sing like a bird.
Doesn't have to be a rocker
Could be a ballad
Or a polka
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:14pm PT
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A priceless conversation string between Werner & Kevin, from the Welcome to Kevin Worrall thread:
Sep 14, 2006 - 12:27am PT
On Quicksilver, the second pitch. WTF were you guys thinking back then. I could've died from that run out.
It didn't happen, and look where we ended up.
Here?
Bawhahahaha ..... oh man.
Sep 14, 2006 - 12:41am PT
Sorry Wonder Brawn. Ask Vern, he led the second pitch. I think we were thinkin we'd run out of bolts if we placed too many and we
didn't have the scatch to buy more. Besides, when's the last time you fell on a 5.9? or a 5.10? or a 5.11 for that matter?
Sep 14, 2006 - 12:45am PT
Kauk told me to lead that pitch because it's the "easy one".
Sh#t .........
Sep 14, 2006 - 12:51am PT
What was that Chappy quote about Kauk's stretching program? something like "the only thing he stretches is the truth"! har har!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
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Here is Kevin's first post, to Roger Breedlove, on his thread Sorting out late 70's Valley climbing:
Aug 15, 2008 - 08:25pm PT
Hi Roger,
I sensed you left Tales and SR out deliberately, as they were done later in the seventies, and you do have to draw the line somewhere in doing a
mini history. It seems you moved on from the Valley scene somewhere around '76 or so, ending your first hand recollections of climbing evolution
there.
Those two routes, from my perspective, seem to be at the end of an era of Valley climbing that is fairly distinct, whether you call it the Stonemaster
era, or whatever. A few factors signaled the end of that era, and the start of another, in my mind. One of those factors was the use of Friends, and
the routes put up by their inventor, Ray Jardine. Phoenix, The Cringe, Elephant's Eliminate, A Dog's Roof, Hangdog Flyer - all were as hard or harder
than the routes done by the core Valley crew you talk about.
Jardine was very quiet about how he did those routes, and always kept to himself around the Valley - definitely not one of the boys. In retrospect,
part of that was his desire to keep his Friends secret for business reasons, at least at first, but it also gradually became apparent that he had been
using them to hangdog his projects, and that style of climbing was just not acceptable or even considered as an option by the Stonemasters.
Friends were invented, in a way, to facilitate hangdogging.
The appearance of Friends coincided with a tightening up of regulations in Camp 4, which limited the sense of community there had been for a
decade. Sportclimbing was catching fire in Europe, and the next thing the Valley crew knew, The Stigma was being openly worked on by Todd
Skinner, using hangdogging methods. Unabashed dogging, right at the base of what is perhaps the premier crack climbing crag in the Valley, was
probably the final event in the Stonemaster era.
Or the opening event of the next.
From my perspective, the 80's and 90's witnessed the Valley and it's climbers fall from their position at the cutting edge of climbing - I can't flesh
out the details as I wasn't there. Basically, IMHO, there was a strong resistance to sportclimbing's components - rap bolting and hangdogging - that
led to bitter feuds and a fractured, unfocused freeclimbing scene.
I'd love to hear an historical perspective of Valley freeclimbing from somebody who was there in the 80's and 90's
Free ascents of El Cap routes have put the Valley on the map again. Long new free routes, more FFAs using sportclimbing methods, speed climbing,
and long free route linkups might keep it there.
KW
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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Friends were invented, in a way, to facilitate hangdogging.
Not really true.
Ray took a ground fall once and he became scared to death of doing that again so he saw the friends as tool to keep himself from ever doing that again.
He was scared to death to climb above his pro.
That is what actually facilitated his hangdogging ....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 16, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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Xcon...Thanks for mentioning soas...Mine's tight and i need to stretch it...rj
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Oct 16, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
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phylp said it best.
Say your piece but don't expect an eternal red carpet to be rolled out due to former glories.
I'd still rather see more of Warbler's stupidtaco sh#t than phylp's... his pics of actual rocks and climbing were awesome!!!
Justsayin
Nawmean
Ciao
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Oct 16, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
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^^^^Agreed. I don't think she said it best at all.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 17, 2018 - 05:07am PT
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^^^Very well spoken Blinny^^^
Supertopo doesn't have free speech. That sounds like a bad thing, until you have free speech. Voat (http://voat.co/); is an example of allowing people the full freedom of expression, and it's not everything one would think. Phlyps comment that KW would repeatedly post the same thing over and over may be true, but Warbler was always responding to another posters challenge on his thoughts and ideas. Unfortunately, we shorten our full thoughts when we use written words. A subject that might go 10 min verbally around a campfire ending in agreement can often go 200 pages here with nobody agreeing, if indeed they actually recognize, the others argument. That's just the way of the world and the Warbler should not have been kicked off the platform.
Warm regards to the Warbler, hope he is well.
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