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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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Army intelligence ordered the release of Mansur and Lt. Behenna was ordered to return the terrorist to his home. What kind of a hint is that that Army Intelligence wants the guy released and tells you in an ORDER? Hint hint, wink wink. You kill an undercover agent that is on your side, you get in trouble for it. You recived an ORDER during war time, how many more US soldiers were killed because of this Lt's f*#k up in killing an agent of the US? Army intelligence isn't known for releasing anyone unless they are convinced that they are a little 3rd grade girl, and even then, one who has no known unsavory associates.
Lt. Behenna failed to properly report the incident
I would let those closest to this issue make this decision.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
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What do other countries do when such subterfuge occurs?
I think we will find out shortly.
The Chinese have already unleashed their botnets in a DDS attack on wikileaks.
Assange has embarrassed more than just the US including quite a few countries and organizations with no compunctions.
His life span can probably be now measured in weeks or months.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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couchmaster, that is utter speculation, and indeed, no reason to try one f your own men. C'mon!
Possible though...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
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No speculation. You think AI ordered the release of this man for no reason? If you ever met one of those guys you'd know otherwise.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:23pm PT
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Willful ignorance: the Republican credo.
Bushbot
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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Couchmaster, based on what I've read, I'd call it it incompetence. Iwould hope our intel community is better but based on the Wikieaks and CIA compound bombing,,,,we fail sometimes.
I trust the word of Michael Behenna over some intel clown anyday. Michael is a man of honor and obvious respect based on his record. Intel clowns covering their asses....PffT!
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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That's the beauty of this. Politics aside; all will be punished! But to what gain?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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You ignore my point Blue.
Michael Behenna screwed up and his prisoner ended up dead. He threatened to kill the man. He cut his clothes off. He then cut his flexicuffs. These were mistakes.
Michael Behenna was airborn. He let an unarmed man get in a position to attack him? And you believe that? Come on dude. You can't be that naive. He set the dude up or he is a complete f*#kup. Being Airborn, I doubt that he is that much of a f*#kup. Why would an unarmed man attack two armed soldiers. Only if the soldiers screwed up.
The question is.. did they screw up on purpose, or did they just screw up. Either way their prisoner ended up dead. If it was just a scew up, then I would be more likely to be lenient. But that isn't what his troops say. Plus it doesn't sound like just a screw up. It sounds more like They drove this guy to attack.
My two cents.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Lovegasoline,
Well said.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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One unfortunate side-effect of all this may be that increasingly, truly sensitive communications will be purely verbal, one on one. They might still be recorded, but that takes a little more effort than keeping an e-mail. And most politicians and senior bureaucrats have learned the Richard Nixon lesson - nothing in writing or recorded.
The difficulty being that often there should be a record, for internal purposes, for reference, or if it's necessary to later hold someone accountable.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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Michael Behenna was airborn. He let an unarmed man get in a position to attack him? And you believe that? Come on dude. You can't be that naive.
At what point would Michael release this rat (a known operative), that Michael would be in a safe position??
Michael admitted to releasing him before his village with an interpreter beside him (Mike). Mike asked him further questions through the interpreter, and as Mike drew his attention back to Mr. Rat, he was coming at him. He drew his service 9mm, and double-tapped him.
Rat dead.
The trajectory of the bullets is conclusive to a defensive shooting!!!!!
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:37pm PT
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3 million individuals have clearance to access this info,
where do you get this information?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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No, Crowley, it was an expert who determined the tragectories and ananysis.
Dipsh#t.
Read the f*#king testimony above!!!!
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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The trajectory of the bullets is conclusive to a defensive shooting!!!!!
So basically what you are saying is that this unarmed naked man attacked two armed military personnel and the only way that they could protect themselves was to shoot him.
First, they could have put him on the ground. With one armed man pointing a weapon at him, then cut his flexicuffs. Then backed off. The man would not have had a chance to attack.
They drove him nuts with fear, then either screwed up on purpose or just screwed up.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
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So basically what you are saying is that this unarmed naked man attacked two armed military personnel and the only way that they could protect themselves was to shoot him.
Yes, but it was one trained military person who he attacked. Do you understand war and people who will do anything to kill you???
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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The 251,287 cables, first acquired by WikiLeaks, were provided to The Times by an intermediary on the condition of anonymity. Many are unclassified, and none are marked “top secret,” the government’s most secure communications status. But some 11,000 are classified “secret,” 9,000 are labeled “noforn,” shorthand for material considered too delicate to be shared with any foreign government, and 4,000 are designated both secret and noforn. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?_r=1&hp
Apparently wikileaks, The Guardian, and The New York Times have so far only released about 200 of the documents - 0.1%.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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Blue.. They drove this guy nuts and he attacked. Either they were fools for letting him get in a position to attack them, or they planned it.
He was unarmed and naked. All that they would have had to do is point the gun at him while they released him. They didn't. So they screwed up.
And who the heck are you to think you know more about war? did you serve? Nope.. neither did I. You talk to folks and read stuff. Well so do I. My landlord is a retired 2 star general from the army and he thinks this guy screwed up. He doesn't know if he screwed up on purpose or just screwed up, but he screwed up the release of a prisoner.
Oh.. and you don't get to decide if this prisoner was guilty as charged. Unless you just want to sink to the same level of those we fight.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
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Crowley, now I know you're just trying to piss me off.
What was his motive? An un-armed terrorist comng for his gun or person?
EDIT:
Blue.. They drove this guy nuts and he attacked. Either they were fools for letting him get in a position to attack them, or they planned it.
He was unarmed and naked. All that they would have had to do is point the gun at him while they released him. They didn't. So they screwed up.
I give the benefit of the doubt to the Soldier in this case. And please dont make the weak arguement about my lack of service. I prolly would have shot him too. It's f*#king war and a terrorist you're releasing (stupidly) makes a move at you??
Most Marines and Army are trained to defend themselves, as are police. You SHOOT!!! OR YOU ARE DEAD!!!!!! IT'S A F*#KING WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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No evidence that WikiLeaks releases have hurt anyone
Source: Miami Herald
No evidence that WikiLeaks releases have hurt anyone
By NANCY A. YOUSSEF
McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON -- American officials in recent days have warned repeatedly that the release of documents by WikiLeaks could put people's lives in danger.
But despite similar warnings before the previous two releases of classified U.S. intelligence reports by the website, U.S. officials concede that they have no evidence to date that the documents led to anyone's death.
Before Sunday's release, news organizations given access to the documents and WikiLeaks took the greatest care to date to ensure no one would be put in danger. In statements accompanying stories about the documents, several newspapers said they voluntarily withheld information and that they cooperated with the State Department and the Obama administration to ensure nothing released could endanger lives or national security.
The newspapers "established lists in common of people to protect, notably in countries ruled by dictators, controlled by criminals or at war," according to an account by Le Monde, a French newspaper that was among the five news organizations that were given access to the documents. "All the identities of people the journalists believed would be threatened were redacted," the newspaper said in what would be an unusual act of self censorship by journalists toward government documents.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/28/1947638/no-evidence-that-wikileaks-releases.html#ixzz16di5ZvjW
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 28, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
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What does that matter, MatT?
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