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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 19, 2010 - 05:02pm PT
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When are we going?
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2010 - 07:09am PT
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When Pratt did Twilight Zone, he was in Cortinas, no chalk,
no big gear, no camelots, no big friends, just his ability,
no one to teach him those techniques, he taught himself, basically,
no training, just a pure, unprotected lead in 1964 that remains
one of the real masterpieces. Within a few years, the great
offwidth climbers, such as Bridwell and Klemens... had moved
into a new age of better shoes, better gear, and great
knowledge and skill. They lived there as long as they could,
and the more time one spends in the Valley in a dedicated way
the better one gets at that stuff... but Pratt was one of a kind,
and it's no really possible to make a fair or adequate comparison
to him. Even the better shoes today make a huge difference...
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 20, 2010 - 09:48am PT
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Pratt was certainly the master and one of my all-time heroes. However, of all of the types of climbing, I would say that offwidth climbing is the least dependent on good shoes.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2010 - 10:35am PT
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In my opinion, OW climbing ability is the true mark of an all around climber. Wide cracks will never be popular because of the brutal nature of the climbing and the fact that they are not the place to get those high numbers (ratings) today's climbers crave so much.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 20, 2010 - 10:44am PT
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Jim, yeah I agree.
I think your point is partly that we don't have 5.14 offwidths and although there sort of are 5.13 and 5.12 offwidths they are incredibly rare compared to face and smaller cracks rated at those levels. And if they are 5.13 or 5.14 they usually are stem flares like Book of Hate and Grand Illusion. A 5.11c offwidth is one extremely badass lead, you are saying. And I do agree. The cardiovascular requirements of, the duration of, the total body strengths needed in such wide leads are really in a region all their own in comparison to other categories. It is odd isn't it that offwidths tend to top off at a lower rating. However there have always been actual fashions in climbing. I remember back about 30 to 37 years, finger cracks were "all the rage' and very few were even able to pull off hard wide, much less want to for about two decades.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2010 - 10:53am PT
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Peter, I was in the Valley on a rainy day a couple of weeks ago and I told some young climbers that we used to go to Generator Crack when the weather precluded climbing elsewhere. We ended up with about 8 climbers on top rope and I was the only one (albeit with some difficulty) who got up. I remember soloing the damn thing in the early 70's- must have had it wired. Soloing it the other day was NOT an option for me.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 20, 2010 - 11:24am PT
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Last time I tried to solo Generator Crack (1995), I slipped out from 25 feet up and broke my back.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 20, 2010 - 11:50am PT
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Christ Yonkee!!! UGH.
I hear you Jim. And what you say is true. We would go down there and fire up the thing left side in, right side and lap it. And a great place when the weather was bad. And yes, do it unroped too. And for sure, I would never try it unroped now. I am on a "lose weight and fitness kick" finally and hope to be back on it soon. Got a ton of weight to lose though; too many happy hours in the City for the last 10 years.
But your point is important. A bunch of you people went down there and you were the only one who could get up it.....jesus. Back in the early 70's you were NOTHING WHATSOEVER if you could not flash Generator Crack. Not many unroped it but nearly everyone could at least climb it. So lame. It is not a freak problem either but fully representative of most offwidths above 5.9. Climbers had more core-strength on average back then.
I think I would suggest that people NOT wear flexible shoes on it; you will just make it harder for yourself--- don't fight me on this. Wear the stiffest thing you can as it is heel-and-toe and oblique heal-and-toe and current shoes are just horrible at that kind of problem. Kaukulators with stealth on them or the JB would be the bare minimum for stiffness. More like a Robbins boot, PA, Spider or 5.10 Camp Four type of shoe/boot. The crack is giant, there is no reason to have some sensitive near-slipper type of shoe on in such stuff.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 20, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
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Off-width, wide cracks is one of the most difficult disciplines to master in rock climbing.
It's non-intuitive. Face climbing is intuitive.
Off-width, wide cracks require coordinating the whole body working efficiently without wasting energy.
You can't cheat. Cheaters layback.
But rarely do they lead a long hard pitch in the cheater position and get away with it.
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Impaler
Gym climber
Vancouver
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Feb 14, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
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One of my favorite threads here!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 14, 2011 - 07:00pm PT
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Think I missed this thread. The Cleft was certainly an eye opener for a 5.9- which it isn't. I remember psyching up for Twilight Zone in about 73. In those days you went 30 feet or so to the first nut placement- you didn't need to do anything else to feel like you had a full day.
edit: Guess I didn't miss the tread considering my post about Generator Crack- senior moment.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Feb 14, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
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It is odd isn't it that offwidths tend to top off at a lower rating. -- Peter Haan
Well, if you start out with a climb like Ahab getting a .10b rating (and some even claim it's easier), then 5.12 OW has to be a dark and disastrous beast like a monster out of Clash of the Titans.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 14, 2011 - 07:06pm PT
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Offwidths need a rating system based on caloric expenditure, breaths taken and surface area of the epidermis lost.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 14, 2011 - 08:10pm PT
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Jimbo Donini, I don’t think you even breathe, expend calories nor get scraped any more, do you? I like to picture you much like Mother Teresa or other demigods, not really of this earth--- more like a principle than a being, you see. What could you be talking about? I bet you move like water on rock by now; I haven’t seen your shtick for 40 years though.
Werner is right just above too Pilgrims; that is a point that is not usually made--- that offwidth is the most difficult of climbing disciplines, counter-intuitive. And Werner is/was an excellent offwidther too.
One of its virtues is that you get to get inside stuff instead of being bare-assed out in the etherzone plus you often can get rests of sorts. Bigger climbers are also not at a distinct disadvantage in offwidths---- so any of you climbers above 185 pounds, shoes beyond size 11, giant paws and powerful-assed legs, this is your chance.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Feb 14, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
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Bigger climbers are also not at a distinct disadvantage in offwidths...
..for a change. The bigger the crack the more the big can compete.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 14, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
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So who is for-real psyched and serious about making the OW pil-GRIM-age this spring and summer? I should be directing this to the eastbay wide group, but the likely candidates will read this thread...
I'm essentially a wide n00b when it comes to serious stuff, but I have potential. Plus my skin heals pretty fast.
Adding a few non-Yosemite cracks to the wide circuit:
Fat Merchant's Crack 5.10aX ?
Self-Abuse 5.10b:
And Steck-Salathe... maybe no single section is a ridiculous technical crux, but you can't deny it's great endurance training. There is a surprising amount of wide stuff on the route that nobody talks about (like most of the pitches!) and it all adds up.
That said, the pitch before the narrows was pretty serious for me. But I was too chicken to just stem up wide outside, and it was wet/slimy and wider than fist back in deep where I craved to be.
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Impaler
Gym climber
Vancouver
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Feb 15, 2011 - 03:05am PT
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Some time around February 2007 I was cragging in the valley with a friend. He'd never been on the Generator crack at the time and we decided to go down and do a few TR laps. He had the first go and struggled on the beginning section. I've done it on TR before on three separate occasions and I've had this thread going through my head the whole time (and possibly for the preceding several months). Having never fallen on GC, I knew I didn't need a rope for it and as I watched my friend struggle, I remembered the moves. I thought that it would be a good idea to do it unroped as part of my training. The harness wouldn't get in the way and once I'm past the jug where most people switch sides, I'd be in the squeeze section and totally safe.
Well, it was the end of the day in February, twilight was setting in and it was starting to snow lightly. After some thinking I started up and quickly got past the crux. Several repetitive moves later I was making slow progress through the OW section. Everything was going smoothly, but what I didn't account for was my fear. I've never soloed anything harder than 5.8 or 5.9 at the time and I was getting quite scared as I was about third or half way up. I was overgripping like a mad man, squeezing all the blood out of my already cold fingers until I realized that I'm just too gripped to keep going up and can't even feel my fingertips. I was still feeling solid just below the jug and wasn't slipping out, just paralyzed with fear. It was pretty lucky that I didn't think of pulling the TR down before starting to climb and asked my friend to swing the rope towards me.
I had a hard time straightening my arms during the drive back home and my biceps were hurting for several days after that just from overgripping. In retrospect, I should have chosen a better time to do this step of my training on the road to TZ, when I wouldn't be rushed to climb before it gets dark or cold. I'm still on that road now...
Vlad
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 22, 2011 - 12:02am PT
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a friend and i recently did all of the chimney's at sugarloaf in one day.
it was something like 28 pitches of wide.
we started early and ended in the dark.
i had a gobbie on my knee for a month after that day.
the wide road to twilights is endearing.
edit... 28 pitches?? let's see if my memory serves any use at all...
fat merchant -> TM's -> Podium -> West Chimney -> Hardings -> East Chimney -> Self Abuse -> The fly.
well, 20 pitches, geez
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Mar 22, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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Thanks Vlad. Just don't forget, soloing unroped should be extremely fun, not scary. Do stuff when you really really have it in the bag from all accounts. Bachar did extreme stuff unroped but as far as he was concerned, he absolutely knew he had the situation covered. So for me and everyone else I know that goes unroped on the upper end. Your solo should actually seem kind of regular to you, never a crazy-ass fling into the the relative unknown.
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