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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:36am PT
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With renewed emphasis on Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM) training brought on with the establishment of the Navy Fighter Weapons School (TOPGUN) in 1968, the availability of A-4 Skyhawks in both the Instrument RAGs and Composite Squadrons at the "master jet bases" presented a ready resource of the nimble Skyhawks that had become the TOPGUN preferred surrogate for the MiG-17. At the time, the F-4 Phantom was just beginning to be exploited to its full potential as a fighter and had not performed as well as expected against the smaller North Vietnamese MiG-17 and MiG-21 opponents. TOPGUN introduced the notion of dissimilar air combat training (DACT) using the A-4E in the stripped "Mongoose" configuration with fixed slats.
The small size of the Skyhawk and superb low speed handling in the hands of a well trained aviator made it ideal to teach fleet aviators the finer points of DACT. The squadrons eventually began to display vivid threat type paint schemes signifying their transition into the primary role of Adversary training. To better perform the Adversary role, single-seat A-4E and F models were introduced into the role, but the ultimate adversary Skyhawk was the "Super Fox," which was equipped with the uprated J52-P-408 engine (11,200 lbs of thrust) similar to the configuration used by the Blue Angels.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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Good catch Chief! Excellent technical information.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:53am PT
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"When air combat started over North Vietnam in 1965, Sidewinder was the standard short range missile carried by the US Navy on its F-4 Phantom and F-8 Crusader fighters and could be carried on the A-4 Skyhawk and on the A-7 Corsair for self-defense." reference Wikipedia
While the A-4 could carry sidewinder air to air missiles, they were primarily for defensive use in Vietnam.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 23, 2010 - 11:11am PT
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Ricky,
Coz, because of the depth and breadth of his vertical environment experience and expertise, has trained many special ops troops, and he still knows many of them personally.
In the fall of 2002, when the Iraq war was still being publicly debated by the politicos and the press, Coz was privately saying we were going to war, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This was based on the number of special ops people he knew who were already headed that way and the stuff they were taking with them, many months before Bush said he would make a decision.
I thought he was a bit whacked at the time but it turns out he was spot on.
I'll take Scott's "ear to the ground" sense of what's happening in the military over the homogenized "all the news they want to feed you" daily national news feed any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
D
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 23, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Holy sh#t, the post of the year right here: Daniel Eubank just upthread:
"Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of
A desert. Congress said, "someone may steal from it at night.." So they
created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job..
Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without
instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two
people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time
studies.
Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing
The tasks correctly?" So they created a Quality Control department and
hired two people. One to do the studies and one to write the reports.
Then Congress said, "How are these people going to get paid?" So
They created the following positions, a time keeper, and a payroll
officer, then hired two people.
Then Congress said, "Who will be accountable for all of these
people?" So they created an administrative section and hired three
people, an Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a
Legal Secretary.
Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one
Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost."
So they laid off the night watchman.
NOW slowly.
Let it sink in.
Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.
Does anybody remember the reason given for the establishment of the
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY .... During the Carter Administration ?
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn't think so!
Bottom line. We've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of
An agency ... the reason for which not one person who reads this can
remember!
Ready?? It was very simple ... and, at the time, everybody thought it
Very appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977. TO LESSEN OUR
DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???
AND, NOW, IT'S 2010 -- 33 YEARS LATER -- AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
"NECESSARY" DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR.
THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES; AND, LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?"
....... "
I will add that there is a lot of departments that already had employees that were moved into the Dept of Energy, some are critical (they have the nightw#tchman so to speak) so I don't think that is a fair statement. Yet as noted they are bloated and overpaid beyond question.
I'll repeat myself Dr F: Both the Republicans and the Democrats are spending this country into hell.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:02pm PT
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Dr. F, if you think it's just the repubs and not also the dems, you are mistaken.
From the radicallly right wing New York Times
An exceprt...
"In 1999, Bill Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, a bank deregulation bill that swept away a Depression-era law known as Glass-Steagall. The new law had such a chorus of bipartisan support that it passed the Senate 90-8. One of the few who raised a cry against it was Byron Dorgan. “I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this, but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past,” said Dorgan, a populist North Dakota Democratic senator, “and that that which is true in the 1930s is true in 2010.” Today, a few years earlier than he predicted, Dorgan looks prescient. The current financial crisis is frequently called the worst since the Great Depression. And Gramm-Leach-Bliley is often cited as a cause, even by some of its onetime supporters."
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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Dr. F, if you think it's just the repubs and not also the dems, you are mistaken.
EXACTLY!
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
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Here's a little quicky on defense spending for 2009-10...yeah, it's Wiki, and Repugs are sure to invalidate it as such (I'll check Conservapedia later), but it's a start:
Budget for 2010
For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]
When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] An additional $33 billion supplemental bill to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was expected to pass in the spring of 2010, but has been delayed by the House of Representatives after passing the Senate.[5][6] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $880 billion and $1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010.[7]
The federally budgeted (see below) military expenditure of the United States Department of Defense for fiscal year 2010, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, is[10]:
Components↓ Funding↓ Change, 2009 to 2010↓
Operations and maintenance $283.3 billion +4.2%
Military Personnel $154.2 billion +5.0%
Procurement $140.1 billion −1.8%
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.1 billion +1.3%
Military Construction $23.9 billion +19.0%
Family Housing $3.1 billion −20.2%
Total Spending $685.1 billion +3.0%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
It would be pretty hard to call any of that a 'decrease in spending', but if you're a chickenhawk Repug, I'm sure it doesn't feel like enough.
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BillO
Trad climber
Yachats, OR
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:22pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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While debt is a huge problem, massive unemployment and stagnation is a much larger problem in the short term. Yet, the obsession these days is all about the debt.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
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"We are now closer to a depression than ever."
We're not in a great place, that's for sure, but we were much closer to a true Depression as Shrub left office.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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'm pretty sure my friend John McCain flew the SkyHawk.
Is that one of the many he crashed?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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Is that a CBO graph, Eubank?
Aside from your obvious intent to point out the deficit under Obama, you might want to notice how the last 3 Repug POTUS's, including your beloved Ray-gun, resulted in nothing but deficits.
What happened to the GOP's 'party of fiscal responsibility'?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
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War Funding Nears Completion
On Thursday, the Senate stripped out domestic spending programs previously attached to the $59 billion emergency war supplemental spending bill and returned the approved measure to the House for final decision. The Senate $58.8 billion version of H.R. 4899 contains funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, veterans programs and disaster relief. Dropped from the bill are $23 billion of House add-ons in domestic, non-defense spending (Teacher's Salaries).
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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Aside from your obvious intent to point out the deficit under Obama, you might want to notice how the last 3 Repug POTUS's, including your beloved Ray-gun, resulted in nothing but deficits.
And the deficit shrank when 5 of the last 6 dems were in office.
Too early to say what will happen with the 6th dem--Obama.
So why is Eubank so down on Dems then?
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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"So why is Eubank so down on Dems then? "
I don't think you're gonna get an answer from Eubank- like any true Repug, when he's confronted by an 'inconvenient truth', he turns up the volume on Glenn Beck a little louder.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
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From factcheck.org
McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be be McCain's fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause.. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.
A fifth alleged "crash" turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through "daredevil clowning" but returned safely.
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