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WBraun
climber
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
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I'm not against any of this.
But ...
I hear this: "be it another Sunderland or someone else people will continue to push the limits."
What limits are they pushing?
They are tethered to the technological world with all their satellites, and electronic instruments.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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She had already been beaten out by a younger female sailor (Jessica Watson)BTW. She knew there was no hope for the record and chose to proceed anyhow. That shows some motivation beyond just getting her name in the record book.
Edit to add: The electronics and such do sort of diminish some aspects of risk, but it is still a one-year journey, alone. Just you and the ocean, the wind and no motor to get you out of trouble and it's a big, big ocean out there. In terms of danger... I actually worried more about these young girls getting kidnapped by modern pirates, held for ransom or worse- than having safety issues with the sailing aspects of their journey.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
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Although it appears weather conditions have "improved" somewhat in the past 24 hours this is still one of the nastiest stretches of water in the world. Difficult to recover a person in these waters and almost impossible to recover a boat.
Not having Abby's coordinates I can only guestimate her location. The following may give you an idea of the sea conditions. So, from 30-35 ft down to 18-25 ft is an improvement. Look to the east and it gives you an idea of the force of the Southern Ocean.
Appears sea conditions will stabilize for the next 120 hours or so.
Keeping up the good vibes for a safe and quick rescue.
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
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Werner, its more of a physical thing than a technological thing. It would not even surprise me there is someone out there along this same age trying to figure out how to do this with out all the technology.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:40pm PT
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Yeah, no sex, drugs and rock and roll, and if you can't be the best then you should not try! Defenately no climbing.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:46pm PT
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As I posted earlier if it were not Abby it would have been someone else. As I am sure you are aware trying to convince some sailing parents is somewhat like talking to a wall. be it another Sunderland or someone else people will continue to push the limits.
I absolutely agree with you Slakkey. But does this mean that we, as a society, should never speak up and express our concern? Some here seem to be saying that. Just butt out. I disagree with this sentiment. Just because this is a borderline case, does not mean that we shouldn't discuss it.
I worked with kids whose parents encouraged their drug use, even going so far as to give them hardcore drugs. That is so obviously wrong that it is easy to decide to speak up. This case is a lot more difficult to see the line at which you definitely speak up because sailing is a wonderful activity. So it is hard to know when something like sailing solo at a young age is inappropriate.
All of you people saying that we should shut up.. Is their an age at which you would speak up? Or do you fully subscribe to the "let a parent do anything they want with their child" philosophy of life? Does society ever have a duty to the child?
Dating is good for kids. In sane circumstances. Is there an age when they shouldn't date? Would you speak up if your neighbor was letting her 11 year old precocious child date a 35 year old man? Oh wait, thats illegal and society already helped you make the decision, but I guess society shouldn't have done that.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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Such encouraging news. I had been so focussed on Jessica Watson that until yesterday's news I didn't even know Abby had re-embarked after her repairs given that she was then outside the window of when you would typically take on the Southern Ocean. Like many other posters I admire her gumption and hard as nails toughness but wonder about why the need to push the envelope regarding the timing of going into the Indian Ocean. Sailing to Hawaii or up to the Northwest or Alaska or even up and down the California coast there are "windows" when it is just plain fool hardy to do so. I've sailed around Pt. Concepcion during the "proper window" in an aluminum boat meant for high latitutde sailing and thought I was going to die (although I knew the boat would survive!). Anyway .... happy family reunion is in the making and they will have plenty of chances to assess what they will do again the same and what they will do differently...isn't that the great benefit of surviving any epic ordeal?...the chance to do it again with a better outcome?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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Shouldn't it be "sailor"? Or is the feminine form "sailer"?
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
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Glad to hear she is alive! Been thinking about her all day long. I saw a film a few years back of an English woman sailing around the world and getting into trouble in the same area. Sailing at good speed while asleep and waking up after hitting an iceberg and breaking the keel. She filmed herself fixing the keel and climbing the mast in a huge storm then breaking down herself but in the end she made it. Unbelievable what goes on out there in the middle of nowhere, huge waves and house size icebergs that sailors dodge while sailing at high speeds. Got to see a film like this to get an inkling of what really goes on out there. Safe return to Abby
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:56pm PT
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At 16 some kids can and/or do make decisions as they want weather parents approve or not. It has been happening since the beginning of time. Is it impossible to think that some kids at 16 are much more mature than an 18 year old that can "legally" make their own decisions. Great things come of people that do hard things, sometimes they don't, sometimes they die in the process but to tell someone your judgement is better than theirs esspecially when it comes to their kids is a tricky issue.
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Gene
Social climber
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
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Not to put too much of a damper on the situation, but i'd keep the champagne on ice until she's off Wild Eyes and on another vessel or even on dry land. Prognosis is excellent, but it's not completely over yet.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
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It is a tough question. Whose dream was this - hers or the parents? That is the key question for me.
It looks like it was her ambition....and an ambitious, motivated teenager is very difficult to stop. In that case, buying a good boat and investing in her dream may have been the pragmatic way of keeping her alive.
If your 16 year old wants to strike off into the world, there is very little you can do to physically stop them. In many states, you are bound to pay for them, and are responsible for any damages, but you do not have access to their doctors or medical records. You can't force them to go to school. The only real control you have is what you are willing to pay for beyond their basic sustenance and legal responsibilities.
I also wonder if there is a lot more "protectiveness" here because she is a girl. Boys have done this, and the outcry didn't seem to be as vocal.
She failed. We all experience failure, just most of us don't do so that publicly. She had the technology to stay alive. Any vessel can get into trouble in the sea, and fortunately there are enough caring people to help another in need. Tomorrow - it could be your turn or my turn to need help.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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I think to really answer the question: "Was this her motivation or her parents?"
We need to ask Abby her opinion in 5 years.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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Anybody know if Megan Emmons is still climbing?
She was strongly motivated by her father when at 15 she did the Clean Walls video with Jello and me, and I got the suspicion that she was just trying to please her dad.
If she is still pulling down hard then I guess I was wrong.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
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Again what limits are they pushing?
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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Again what limits are they pushing?
The limits of luck……
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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yay Abbey, finally some good news.
I heard a piece on NPR recently about why older workers are valuable (I need some good news too - ha). Yes, they have less energy, failing memories, move more slowly and are cautious, but as people age (or so this expert was opining) they get much better at cutting through noise and empty promises and making good decisions. Its called maturity. Seeing - in advance - what all the consequences might be of any given decision and evaluating and weighing the likelihood and consequences if thing don't go as planned.
I found this commentary quite insightful. I'm the dad of a really smart and very mature 20 year old daughter. 99% of the time she doesn't miss a beat in making important decisions - where to go to school, what classes to take, which summer job to accept, etc. She does really well in general. But occasionally the difficulties of life get too complex for her and she is overwhelmed. At these times her mom (or occasionally myself if I'm allowed any input) work thing out and send her in a (hopefully) better direction. What stands out to me is that making complex decisions - particularly in risky situations - takes a unique skill set that I believe only age can give you (and even then, no doubt, many people never gain them). All the fair-weather sailing lessons in the world aren't going to help you decide whether to head out of port when unstable weather is headed your way. It takes something more than training and ballsy-ness to make good decisions. In fact, since most young people have never had anything really bad happen to them in their short lives (especially rich young American kids) they tend to assume bad things never happen. Not true. Sh#t does happen, and the possibility needs to be carefully factored into one's decision making algorithm.
I'm so glad Abbey is OK, but I think 16 is too young for such an undertaking and I personally think her parents were irresponsible for allowing (what to speak of encouraging) the trip.
my 2 cents
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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Ah Werner, well we could say there are no limits and that the only limits are those that are created by those that are limited at least in their mindset themselves :)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:51pm PT
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Miscellaneous ramblings
First of all I'm much relieved to hear she's been found alive and apparently unhurt.
Odd that her blog doesn't give any location information on her entries. Almost as if they're hiding it for future publication.
Between Reunion and Australia is not the Roaring Forties.
Reunion Island is 21deg South and Perth Australia is 31deg South. She's on a sensible track. As a reference, Los Angeles is 34 degrees N.
Not the tropics but not high latitudes either.
It's winter down there so the weather is not as nice as it might have been earlier in the year. She's at least 1000 miles north of the maximum iceberg extent this time of year.
25-30 foot seas are not exceptional for an ocean going boat of any size. I've done 5 days of 40 - 50 knot wind and 25-30 foot seas in the North Pacific in late autumn in a 30 foot boat with no problems.
It certainly wears you down, especially the frequent sail changes, checking rigging, getting something hot to eat, going to the toilet. All while trying to keep your footing at a bouncing 30-40 degree heel.
Losing a mast in rough conditions is also not exceptional. Ocean sailing boats of all types are specifically meant to survive a dismasting. A prepared sailor of any age knows what to do if it happens. Even a capsize is considered a possibility.
She certainly has the right boat and gear for the job.
None of us can guess her motivations, her parents' motivations, rivalry or support with her brother etc.
Same thing could have happened to an experienced "mature" sailor. Mother Nature holds all the cards.
Well Done to the people who found her.
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