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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 13, 2010 - 03:57am PT
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As I said, as far as I know Metolius has only responded to inquiries - they've never been put on the market.
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Crag Q
Trad climber
Louisville, Colorado
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May 13, 2010 - 09:46am PT
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OK, I am sufficiently put off by this purchase now.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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May 13, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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this thread is awesome.
i love the paranoid war mongering spin. i'm SURE that what this is all about!!
nevermind the fact that their appear to be a bunch of very legitimate reasons why this is a sensable step in BD's growth strategy. it might entail some risk, and it might and/or might not work out to BD's and/or the consumers benefit, but if they want to continue to grow the company its a bridge to be crossed and its then going to be up to them and us to see how succesfull it is.
BD is a clear market leader, the strategery all makes sense.
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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May 13, 2010 - 10:44am PT
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My worthless two cents: someone previously pointed out about increase in softgoods. I think gear will take a back seat to sell a lifestyle to the masses. Look at the surf industry. Surf shops used to sell surfboards with a few t shirts in the back. Now it's r shirts with a few surfboards in back.
Edit: arctyrx is a war mongering govt contractor. They sell packs and layering to the Marines and no one is bashing them.....
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Euroford
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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May 13, 2010 - 10:58am PT
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i think if i was a marine, i'd be stoked to have sweet arcterx gear. i think its awesome that somebody has the sense to provide the solders with that quality of equipment, and extra sweet that our industry can bolster its coffers by providing to the military.
i'm sure we will see an expansion of bd's softgoods line. this is probably a good thing.
i don't expect to see bd drop out of the hard goods market, i expect them to expand it. one of the reasons why they appeal as a business investment is because they have secured a highly desirable position in a nitch market where they are able to command premium prices for gear.
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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May 13, 2010 - 11:06am PT
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It's natural for businesses to sell out. And it's natural for businesses to do business with the military. I just don't want to buy climbing gear from a guy who sold DEFECTIVE armor to the military. Do you?
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murf02
climber
NYC
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May 13, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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To much speculation on this thread. For the first time in BD's history consumers will have access to BD's financial statements and SEC filings. Becoming a public company is not necessarily jumping the shark. Only time will tell. BD branded perfume could make one wish for the Happy Days of old.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 13, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
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The outdoor industry has long history of involvement with the military. Perlon, vibram-soled boots, down parkas, even US-manufactured pitons, were all either developed or spurred by military capital. I wouldn't fret too much about a major supplier finding military contracts-- they all do. If you only buy gear from folks who won't sell to the military, you'd better be ready to climb naked.
But this is a sport and a community where reputation is supposed to mean something. You don't take North America's most storied and respected hardware concern and yoke it to a fat cat roll-up artist best known for running a war-time monopoly on defective military goods.
Remember, this company started with an anvil, a hammer and a picnic bench in the Tetons, Yosemite, and wherever else Yvon parked his truck. From RURPs to the curved-radius ice axe, Chouinard was one of the most important makers of the 1960s and 1970s.
Now, that heritage will be forever linked to the hillbilly armor scandal.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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May 13, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
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okay, i'll go put my tinfoil hat back on and pretend that the sky is falling.
this is a fun thread though.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 13, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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Whatever else, these guys are smart guys - they'll be all about effectiveness (increasing revenue) and efficiency (decreasing costs) on one hand and rolling up more acquisitions to round out their outdoor portfolio on the other now that they've pulled the trigger. BD and Gregory by themselves are a bit 'thin' as portfolios go; together they barely get them over the $100m line where it all becomes worth the hassle. Coming from the pond they're used to playing in I'd expect they probably plan on rolling up something more like a $150-300m portfolio in short order while the getting is good.
And given these guys have fed/mil procurement down cold it's a good bet that they view cranking up mil contracts as a sure way to easily double their revenue with relatively minor product changes. The concern is really more about how strong / reckless their drive for efficiencies become. Guys like these don't like be pinned down, dependent, or constrained by - and don't tend to be particularly loyal to - anybody on the supply side. We'll have to wait and see how it goes, but you can imagine how bad it could get if they decided to go out for few drinks to listen to a pitch about 'cheaper, faster, and more reliable' sourcing from any of the extended Mad Rock crew...
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Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
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May 13, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
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healyj, I'm sure your business analysis is reasonably astute. But where I disagree is when you say, "The concern is really more about how strong/reckless their drive for efficiencies become."
My concern is different: I don't want to support a climbing equipment business run buy a guy with no principles (other than profit) and no climbing roots.
Kerwin said it more eloquently above.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 13, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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Dolomite, I wasn't speaking to any moral imperatives in that analysis, simply pointing out the potential for quality issues once Metcalf & Co. hit the doors. Everyone has to make their own call about who they buy gear from. Pretty easy one for me - I buy from the climbers who make and use great gear and live just a stones throw away on the other side of the mountain.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 13, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
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Healyje- you're analysis seems about right, they gotta sell more or squeeze saving out of something. The Metcaff guy will be gone in a few years time after assuring continuity.
It's really a wait and see on the gear.
Is it necessary that the owner of a climbing/skiing business be a climber or skier, no- but I would think that it would help.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 13, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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Does anyone know the full history behind the Chouinard to Black Diamond transaction? I know a lawsuit was involved but not much more. Was Metcalf one of the original owners of Chouinard Eq. or how did he get involved. And, who actually owned BD (as of a week ago)?
Of course there is always class stratification in businesses, but it can sort of be overlooked while small and privately owned. I suspect one person (or a few??) are going to make out big here, buy mansions, private planes, and yachts (or whatever shakes their bootie), while the rank and file are going to have their actual peon status highlighted. Sad, but that's the way our world is structured.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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May 14, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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buy Metolius now...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 14, 2010 - 02:44am PT
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Boycott them.
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climbera5
Trad climber
Sacramento
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May 17, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
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Keep in mind that Kander holds a large loss carryover that can be used to offset profits from a potential cash cow. A win-win situation at first blush. Speculation abounds here and there are a lot of good reasons set forth as to why it’s a good or bad idea.
Should Metcalf have sold his soul or be naively taken in by Kander and BD is taken to the dark side, they will certainly lose favor with the climbing community. That may not concern Kander in the short term. If he’s able to leverage BD’s name for DOD contracts and mass marketing/ distribution in Asia and Walmart, then he’s achieved his short term goals through stock appreciation. We can only pray it is not so.
Either way, if BD loses its reputation and/or quality control then others will step into the void. The talent, need, and inspiration will remain and someone else will eventually benefit.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 19, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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To be fair to Kanders, the defective vest were made by Second Chance, inc. and Kanders' Armor Holdings scooped them up in August 2005 two months after the National Institute of Justice declared the vests defective in June 2005.
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