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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Mar 10, 2010 - 06:22pm PT
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205 here. but since i always free solo with a helmet i figure to head bump someone on the way down...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 10, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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Worst accident ever at my local crag was a top roper decking and breaking 21 bones. Never been a soloing accident there. I realy wish people would not top rope in my presence because if they get hurt I will have to rescue them.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Mar 10, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
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When did everyone become so uptight?
Perhaps within the past few years. As we all know, there has been an unusual number of high-profile tragedies.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Mar 10, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
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KLK is right on the money.
This was and has been a standard practice at the N. American places best known for soloing training, from Little Smoke Bluffs to JTree, as developed by folks like Croft, Bachar, and then the rest of us hackers.
I gather that almost half the posters to this thread say that should never happen, that that practice was (in hindsight) f*#ked up, and we should end all public soloing.
F*#k that. We are way past the time when it was possible to find complete solitude at the average crag.
This wasn't passing a party or causing risk or harm to the folks that said "OK." Calling this incident (not some theoretical one) a dick move IS a dick move. Get real people. **
**Cranky day.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 10, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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If you have a 3hr head start on someone and they catch you on a single day climb you should let them pass especialy if they are polite.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:03pm PT
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That it's quite selfish to knowingly force additional risk on someone just for your entertainment.
Sorry, but you do that each and every time you climb. Each time you climb, there's some risk of accident, unless you're traversing a foot off a mattress. And accidents usually entail risk to others, even if it's only SAR driving to the trailhead to find out if you've returned safely.
I've never heard of a single accident caused by a falling soloist.
This place is turning into RC.com.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
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I can only guess about this...
but I think he may have wanted something to poof his chest out for (or jackass move), and this is the only route he felt comfortable enough to get to the top of...
letting him do the climb was the best action, I mean, if no body was on the climb at the moment, then waiting for jackass to climb it would not kill anyone but jackass...
best thing would have been if you all sat at the bottom and gave the armchair relief of his every movement for the blind... That might have taken some of the winds from his sails...
sad but there is no way to stop jackasses once they've struck..
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
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stzzo or ex-stzzo or whatever--
you impose risk on others each time you go to the frickin crag. folks on the climb next door might have to come over and rescue you if you deck. you may yard off a chunk of something and toss it onto onlookers. the gumbies on the route above you may drop their gri-gri onto yr head.
we have no calculus for weighing the relative risk posed by a competent soloist on easy ground versus the average party of crag gumbies. so no, you can't simply claim that anyone soloing above someone else is a "dick."
yes, passing is highly dependent on situation. but i take it that you would ban all one-day ascents of el cap (let alone speed ascents), all simo-climbing on any route likely to contain another party, and on and on. those aren't soloing, but it's not like anyone is exactly practicing low-risk climbing in those settings.
i guess we can roll out the razor wire and close off the start pitch of quicksilver and freewheelin, since there's no pro and someone might pitch off that 5.8 and deck onto one of the gumbies innocently wandering lost along the base of cath.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
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A bit of a tangent, but what surprises and annoys me more than the rope-or-no-rope question is certain people's tolerance for climbing up other people's butts.
Exhibit A: There is a conga line of parties on a route w/ no passing lane like SOY. The party in the lead is slower than the ones that follow. Everyone could chill w/ their pardner at their own happy belay and wait for the next belay to open up...after all, we all could see the clusterfinkle above us when we roped up.... or we can all sit on each other (practically in each other) at the same belay.
Exhibit B: You toss your rope down in front of me while I belay my partner up the 1st pitch of a long route with a one hour approach in the middle of about a million acres of open space. You guard your place in line by standing so close to me that I know what you had for breakfast. It sucks that we both showed up at approximately the same time, but if you stand over there, we'll let any other comers know that you're next. Promise.
Exhibit C: You are the only party at a roadside crag that is decorated like a Christmas tree with 3 star routes. Another party with the skills to do any one of a dozen routes of the same grade within a hundred yards, all of which they've done before, shows up determined to do the route that you just roped up for...and only that route. While you sketch your way through a crux as onsight as your new friends at the base will allow it to be, bellows of the virtues of the route as the ultimate training device and spiritual journey invade your ears. Your partner having correctly identified what they had for breakfast, is assured by the new friends to take his time and enjoy the pitch as they start flaking their line under his feet as he casts off.
The soloing part is only dick in and of itself if you are so sketchy that I have to look away, but I feel the same if you're using gear in similarly horrifying manner. (I realize the "I can't watch anymore" point is subjective.)
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habitat
climber
grass pass
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Mar 10, 2010 - 09:49pm PT
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I never understood the free solo or climb hard to impress a lady thing. Has this angle or move ever gotten a guy laid?
Yes.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
yo mama
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:16pm PT
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well mark, we were exited that john showed us his soloing prowess, even if it was a lowly 5.8,it set the standard in our mind of pureness,and also a dislike of kneehigh gym socks and shorty shorts. dick move ? perhaps.
i like to pretend im drunk then solo something to clear the crag out.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Mar 10, 2010 - 11:24pm PT
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hawkeye-damn funny.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Mar 11, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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people complaining about the dick move calls (I posted as a qualified dick mover here) don't seem to realize that in potentially calling DM, one is not necessarily saying that the behavior should be forbidden, or that one who calls DM does not still, occasionally, engage in Dick Movery. Let's face it, we're all dicks sometimes, even the chicks.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Mar 11, 2010 - 12:13pm PT
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This place is turning into RC.com.
No sh#t - it's getting pretty sad round here.
Go Stewie!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Mar 11, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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Can hanging a dozen TRs on every moderate at the crag ALL DAY, then bitching when a local comes through on their solo circuit, be a dick move?
I think so.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 11, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
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BINGO!!!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Mar 11, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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I thought seeing the discussion on an actual climbing topic was fun. If you are only in the market for a mutual appreciation thread, best to skip by the ones w/ "dick move" in the title.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Mar 11, 2010 - 01:14pm PT
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Melissa,
I was just bitching about the quality (or lack there of) of the posts on the old taco stand of late. I think we've beat this horse enough. Alot of us (the sensible ones) understand soloing and the others don't....Anyone can be an ass about things but if you're not an ass then soloing is fine just like TRing at a crag is fine unless you do it like an ass.
kev
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nevenneve
Trad climber
St. Paul, MN
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Mar 11, 2010 - 01:23pm PT
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Almost got into a brawl one Mother's day because of this. Why is it people climbing 5.7 are so damned touchy about others climbing moderates ropeless. A couple of them sincerely chased me around pulling on my sleeves for the better part of an hour. Apparently I'm impolite for the unimplied responsibilities I forced on them but my docile approach to them getting schizo, and physically so at that, only harbors the depth of my ill will. Ten minutes later an out of town youth group and their mothers are asking if they can use some chalk to follow me up something loose and exposed that looked entertaining on the way to the parking lot. Never felt like like it was a dick move telling either group to watch out for rocks that might fall on their head, I didn't think things were going to work out in their favor, or for doing some easy laps in flip flops.
For my money making someone watch you do a couple pitches of overhanging offwidth to squeeze chimney with your prince albert flopping out of some pants you ripped the crotch out of sitting on a rock at the base is a good baseline for defining a dick move.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Mar 11, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
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For my money making someone watch you do a couple pitches of overhanging offwidth to squeeze chimney with your prince albert flopping out of some pants you ripped the crotch out of sitting on a rock at the base is a good baseline for defining a dick move.
perfect illustration of the thread's value . Good one! Laughs are worth a lot...
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