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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jan 27, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
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Banning this kind of thing is no different from requiring it. It's sickening to see a major religion attacked even if it is one that I feel is more degrading and controlling than many others.
I'm an atheist and still think that people should have the right to think and feel what they want and pursue their religious goals in any way they please in private (their own private places) and in public.
Dave
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 27, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
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Blue Ring sounds a lot like an untravelled, uneducated, regressive bigot.
You'd probably be surprised how many countries I've seen/lived in. But it's probably easier to just call me a bigot if you disagree with me.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:07pm PT
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Zeta - My Sikh Hindu friend is sitting here next to me with his turban, scratching his beard saying, "just because this fool lives in Berkeley and has maybe studied a few eastern civilizations during his time at the UC doesn't mean he knows jack about Sikhs and Hindus."
Anyway, back to the topic.
Edit: TAMI - Two of my best friends are Sikh Hindu!!
I acknowledge there are Sikh Muslims as well.
But I live in the Bay area and I am friends with a whole clan of them.
Please don't tell me I don't know anything about them. I've also been to India. I don't think anyone else on this forum can claim that.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
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I've been to India. I think a few others have too. But that's irrelevant.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:17pm PT
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Is that why you hate Muslims, buddy?
Hey, I heard you and Ezra kicked it last week. I have some news.
When are you going xcountry or downhill with us?
Edit: Look, I'm not even that religious of a muslim. But I agree with Binks that this is a problem that can't be solved by banning religious paraphernalia.
It reminds me of the Chinese Exclusion Act. Also the Japanese internment camps. What happens when all the enemies are suppressed and locked down?
Who will they come after next? Probably you.
There was a proverb or quote of some sort along those lines. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't remember how it went or who it was by.
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zeta
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:30pm PT
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Zeta - My Sikh Hindu friend is sitting here next to me with his turban, scratching his beard saying, "just because this fool lives in Berkeley and has maybe studied a few eastern civilizations during his time at the UC doesn't mean he knows jack about Sikhs and Hindus."
mason,
by all means educate me about what you mean by 'Sikh Hindus' and 'Sikh Muslims'... don't you just mean someone who has one parent of each religion? I was just trying to correct some earlier comments here where people didn't seem to know that these were different religions.
and sorry, I'm not writing based on classes from UC--I've lived and worked in India and Nepal for a total of 3 years, starting back in 1995. Though I don't think having something to say about a place/group depends on whether you've lived there.
anyways, this forum is getting way too heated for me so i'm out!
and by the way, I'm a girl...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:33pm PT
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You know damn well I don't hate Muslims. This isn't even a religious issue, not really. It's about everybody behaving the same in public. A free and open society cannot have people cruising around in burqas.
Turbans are totally different. They don't hide one's identity.
Yeah, Ez came by for some Maker's Mark on his way to the gym....
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the main issue in France with the burka is you cannot see the face so you cannot ID the person? hence, a security issue? an ID issue?
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Gene
Social climber
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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It's about everybody behaving the same in public.
That's a GUD thing?
Sometimes a little variety is OK.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 27, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
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The ones who really need to be wearing veils are the stewardesses on Air France.
Jesus!
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:23pm PT
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A free and open society cannot have people cruising around in burqas??????? What????
Lol. I don't follow your logic, Blue. In a free and open society, one can wear whatever the hell they want to. Have you ever set foot inside the Castro or the Tenderloin? Those are neighborhoods in San Francisco.
I honestly am starting to think you really hate muslims, blue. I really do. You're obsessed with everything anti-muslim.
Zeta - I think what my friend is trying to explain is that Sikhism is influenced by many different religions, Hinduism and Islam being two. He's not being very patient in explaining to me.
And yes, you are female! I never said you weren't!
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:34pm PT
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In some cultures.. the veil is all women have known since birth.....
Just like freedom is what we've become accustom to here in the US (with the exception of the last 8 years or so, but that's another thread)....
If I were to se a woman in a veil, I'd not think a thing of it.. it's none of my business, and has no effect on me,so I can't claim to know the motivation for the veil, and would not pay any attention.
Some have stated that the veil is still worn becuase of threat of beheading... Though this may be law in some countries, and I don't agree with it, but I'd never tell another country how to run their business, but I would maybe not provide any financial support to the offending country (unlike US/Saudi relations (as far as I know)..... maybe until the law is changed..
Its good that the veil is being outlawed, though still think that its a personal choice (in some instances) for woman who wish to continue wearing them,so... what'er ya gonna do?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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o dear lord - Google has evesdropped in and placed an ad for a Muslims dating site in the sidebar.
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pc
climber
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:47pm PT
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Blue' writes:
"...This isn't even a religious issue, not really. It's about everybody behaving the same in public. A free and open society cannot have people cruising around in burqas."
Quote of the brave new decade. ;(
edit. HappieG... Great catch. Goog' sure knows how to target ads ;)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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I honestly am starting to think you really hate muslims, blue. I really do. You're obsessed with everything anti-muslim.
Then why do I still hang with you! Why do I hire Muslims to work for me? Dude even asked me for a place for where he could pray during Ramadan. Which I obliged.
There's nothing free about wearing a burqa, and definitely nothing open about it.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jan 27, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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Bluering, I'm just wondering aloud here:
Is this how you define LESS government in our lives?
OR...is is just selected (yours) Government intervention that you proffer?
YOU can't have it both ways, AND you're arguments are contradictory when discussing Gov. involvement in our lives...
see the problem with fundamentalism?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 27, 2010 - 04:24pm PT
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Mojede, what is one of the fundamental purposes of government? Safety of it's citizenry?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jan 27, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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Will someone please explain why a burqa is dangerous to the public. Is that a joke?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jan 27, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
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How about FOLLOWING the US Constitution regarding all citizens ?
Just my take on Con. Law...
Personal question for you, Blue--how will you explain the First Amendment to your young Son, using this topic?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 27, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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"Will someone please explain why a burqa is dangerous to the public. Is that a joke? "
You're right. Abusing women is just a joke.
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