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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jan 22, 2010 - 06:48pm PT
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Dan repeated the line right around Christmas time, so that would be his chalk. It looks wicked hard...
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eliot carlsen
Social climber
San Diego
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Jan 22, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
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I was up on Woodson around Xmas time too and saw the chalkmarks on the face. The edges are all there and they seemed pretty solid to me. I also saw the video of Dan sending the problem. It looks desperate as hell.
If anyone knows what V11 feels like regardless of the type of climbing it'd be Dan. He's repeated most of the hardest stuff up on the hill including the only other person I know of that has repeated "Move Over Junior" which is well below his abilities at 12+ or whatever.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 22, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
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That tree has been manicured since then. No more chalk on anything after all the rain but there will be this weekend. Kudos to Dan BTW as I see he is BA.
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 23, 2010 - 02:13am PT
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I was a 5.11 (face) climber in my prime, and my limit on the lead was about 11b and maybe 11d/12a on the boulders. While i dont claim to know V6, i know that it is ridiculous to claim that V6 is as hard as face climbing gets. That statement may be no more than exhaust from a bloated ego, but im going to reply taking it on its face.
13d (or 12d for all i know) may be the highest grade possible for a slab/friction face climb, because there is a limit to how steep friction will hold. If that was the point, then it was simply a poorly worded statement. If not i can only say that if V6 is the hardest face, why are there so many V7's, V10's and even V15's? If everything rated V7 or harder is really only V6, then the sharmas, caldwells and grahams of the world who seem to be pushing the standards are actually spinning their wheels while the whole world accepts their delusional ratings as fact.
Fascinating. So when JB Tribout put up To bolt or not to be at Smith Rocks in the early 80's that was it, the ceiling had been reached, and no face routes put up in the 25 odd years hence are any harder. No face routes are harder than V6? Heed wise Abe Lincoln, who once said "its better to keep your mouth shut and appear to be a dumbass than to open it and prove you are an even bigger dumbass than you appeared to be" or something like that.
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c22
Boulder climber
Poway, Ca
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Jan 23, 2010 - 09:24am PT
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Hey, thanks for defending me Josh, Nate. It's funny to see this on here, I had to go and locate a years old password after Nate sent me a link.
I certainly don't have Rain Dance wired, but if the conditions are okay, I should be able to repeat it in a couple goes. I'm not going to get into my credentials, they don't really matter, but I would like to straighten this out a little bit. the holds used on the climb are pretty solid, there are some fragile flakes on the face, but they're not used. It would be nice if the climb cleans up a bit, but even if it doesn't, the moves are really cool.
I suck at grading climbs in general, and technical face can be even harder to rate. Still, I'm not exactly a '90 pound gym rat' and having climbed a lot of grades in a lot of styles I'm willing to basically guarantee that Rain Dance is at least V10 and possibly quite a bit harder. To put it in perspective it makes Move Over Junior look like a jug haul.
Still, I'm psyched to see all of you at the Woodson Reunion, and even more excited to meet those of you I don't already know.
Hope you all have a good night.
Oh, If you think there is a grade cap on any style of climbing you're delusional.
It's just the truth.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 23, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
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f V6 is the hardest face, why are there so many V7's, V10's and even V15's? If everything rated V7 or harder is really only V6, then the sharmas, caldwells and grahams of the world who seem to be pushing the standards are actually spinning their wheels while the whole world accepts their delusional ratings as fact.
I think that he was sort of exaggerating for effect-- but there's some truth in the claim, at least for N. America. I can't name three double digit slabs. Hell, I can't name one, even in Yos. I would guess that some of the cruxes on Caldwell's projs might qualify, but can't think of an independent line on a boulder that would.
Even internationally, there aren't many slabs-- or even any routes under vert --that get double digits. Koyomada has a big number slab in Japan, but last I heard, it was unrepeated and hence unconfirmed.
The only place I've seen lots of big number slabs is Fontainebleau. They never stopped climbing slabs there, and a number of the really good Bleausards of the '90s were known as especially strong on the skinny stuff. So even after the gym explosion, slab technique continued to evolve.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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Jan 23, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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Excellent post c22, and welcome back to the ST forum. If I were to make it to the "Reunion" I would consider it a great bonus to meet you and other talented youngbloods. -Bruce Adams
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 23, 2010 - 01:54pm PT
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what is flabob graded? has anyone ever even tried to put a vee grade on that rig?
might be veeten...
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:26am PT
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Since this is a Woodson thread, the "Face" routes I am refering to are slab, less than vertical thin face. How many times has Hall of Mirrors been done at what, 5.13a? I just have a hard time believing that Woodson climbs went from .12+ or V6 to .14 V11 with out much of anything in between. Wouldn't there need to be at least a handfull of V7-V10 to establish the grade?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:31am PT
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raindance should be graded V7 in keeping with woodson's manly ratings.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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Woodson's what???
Sand is a key ingredient at any good area.
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 01:52am PT
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got it johann, thanks for the clarification on that. The hardest climbs out there are face climbs, they just arent slab/friction routes. You meant slab, you said face, which turned your post into one of those wtf statements. Take it from somebody who knows from experience, the more public your comments, the more important it is to say it right.
peace, ron
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 02:06am PT
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hey c22, thanks for your reply. I too was exaggerating for effect, but that is what it would mean if johann's statement were true. As it turns out he didnt mean that. I responded to what was written. You post was an excellent reply.
What do you mean by "ratings cap"? Im not delusional (at least not at the moment), just ignorant. You gotta remember im completely out of the loop and alot closer to the bottom of the talent heap than the top.
Hope to see you on the hill.
ron
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c22
Boulder climber
Poway, Ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 03:44am PT
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Hey, gonamok, sorry about that. I was really tired when I wrote that. I just mean I've seen some really hard bullshit in just about any style you can think of. Maybe not vertical hand crack ;) but you get the idea. I'm sure around V15 things start slowing down, but even as far as face, slab, crack, whatever go, there absolutely are heinous projects much harder than you would think. The reason for the apparent discrepancy I think is not the lack of more difficult climbs, but rather a lack of people interested in the time and aggravation needed for hard slab for example. It's just so much easier to work physical overhangs which appear in greater abundance.
Also, three double digit slabs off the top of my head are:
Khumba V11 Yosemite
The Duel V11 Fontainebleu
Butterfingers V11 Buttermilks
There are many many more of these, but again, they're annoying to work.
Also, I'm really looking forward to meeting you all. I really enjoy the rich history that woodson provides.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 24, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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c22: Also, three double digit slabs off the top of my head are:
Khumba V11 Yosemite
The Duel V11 Fontainebleau
Butterfingers V11 Buttermilks
Sorry, I was probably unclear: I had meant three double digit slabs in N. America. I know that there's a number of them in Bleau, where slabs continued to develop.
But we don't have many, which makes comps tougher on slabs than on the steep.
Yr list is a good example: one from Bleau, then Butterfingers which I wouldn't call a slab; and Khumba. I've heard folks call Khumba V8-- I hadn't realized that it had solidified at 11. I've never touched it, and don't have an opinion, but it does suggest how much tougher it is, in N. America, to get consensus slabs anywhere near the level of difficulty routinely cranked out on the steep.
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 24, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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its all good :) nice to be able to talk without anybody getting bent. Thanks for giving me some insight into high end climbing, its a different world and i enjoy hearing about it.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 25, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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It was an almost perfect day late in the afternoon at Woodson today. The temps went quite cool and the rock was still clean after last week's rain.
Late in the afternoon John Weinberg (Johannsolo) completed the long standing problem in the center of the TV Screen. The problem, first tried by Kevin Powell in the mid 80's was previously known under the working name of "The Emergency Broadcast System".
Based on the lack of any response to previous queries on this forum regarding any known ascents, coupled with various references that refer to the center problem being "V?", it is assumed that this is the first known (verified) ascent of the problem.
HDTV V6.
The V6 rating was felt to be appropriate because the problem was similar in nature and difficulty to that of problems in several other bouldering areas as well as the crux moves on routes at Suicide (Idyllwild).
Check it out at the upcoming reunion, it's a high quality problem on excellent rock.
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gonamok
Trad climber
poway, ca
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Jan 25, 2010 - 04:39am PT
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Nice send! I think weve all given that thing a test tickle but Ive never heard anybody say they have climbed it. Though the name and rating will no doubt stick, theres no way to verify a FA. Its a high profile problem on a super popular rock, and top climbers from all over check out woodson all the time.
Only if vegetation has to be removed to uncover the line or to access the base, or theres loose and crispy crap on the face that wouldnt be there if the line had been climbed (potato chips tend to be on almost any virgin rock on the hill, some areas more than others), is the FA indisputable.
Having said that, i also gotta say NICE PROBLEM! The possibility that a guy named Drako from Slovenia may have theoretically climbed it (on a moonless night of course) doesnt diminish the feat. "HDTV" its already on my map. Well done lad.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 25, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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Only if vegetation has to be removed to uncover the line or to access the base, or theres loose and crispy crap on the face that wouldn't be there if the line had been climbed (potato chips tend to be on almost any virgin rock on the hill, some areas more than others), is the FA indisputable.
Understood. Which is why there was a qualification of assumptions. If anyone knows of verifiable prior ascents, by all means say so. In fact, the biggest reason a V6 merits any note is the problems high profile combined with the fact that almost everybody who has walked up that road has tried it at one time or another.
As for the two points you make in the statement - I would go as far as saying that meeting both of them could still not be proof of FA. It seems that some problems at Woodson, including some fairly well known ones, have become so overgrown that using vegetation as a criteria can even be faulty.
Regarding potato chips: some problems will never, ever, clean up completely due to the very nature of the rock. The holds are many times superficial exfoliation of the surface. Holds that were usable only moments before can become so weakened by the forces of pulling/stepping that they fail completely with the next usage, no matter how much care is taken to avoid it. Weathering can also obviously affect loosened holds. It's the nature of small holds slab.
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sneville
climber
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Jan 25, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
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I thought there was a problem up the middle of the TV screen called Slapstick (12?). Where is that in relation to HDTV?
Sean
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