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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Thanks for a great post FC - people tend to get "larger than life" and it's nice to get personal perspective checks on the other-wise perceived "public personas", and all the blow-out that follows.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Warren's story is always gonna play in Peoria.
People gotta have heroes, the more complex the better.
It's really about the alcohol, far as I'm concerned. I lived sorta near by the "Harding Site" in C4 in '70, but I never talked to Warren or to Beryl, not having had an intro. I'd met Roger and Mary Lou in Fresno thru Millis, who knew EVERYONE from Ostin to Suhl and back to Peter Haan, even.
I recall one "loud" party and someone said Batso was really on a roll, but we were settling in for bed for an early start, so that was probably my chance to party with that crew. They had their ropes on the wall. Things were about to let loose.
To reassure Tami, I never noticed anything weird about Warren's gait. :0)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I loved your post, Wayne. A hundred a month, you gotta be kidding!
And what Peter said:
"Regardless of what might be going on around someone, alcoholism will trump everything else and be by itself alone,
the active and crucial issue, all other issues benched. It is that compelling to its victims."
This is the Absolut truth they don't like you to know.
The poignancy of this story lies right there, in the fact that Warren failed to cope with his addiction.
And also in the fact that he considered this climb his ultimate route but it got trashed
by a temporarily deranged but well-meaning fanatic who can nonetheless be forgiven on the basis of his not erasing the WHOLE route.
Park Rat, Susie, I hope you are healthier. God bless you for your hard work.
Now all you have an opportunity to take the pledge.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Reminds me of the (more measured) series of resignation letters R.P. Feynman sent to the National Academy of Sciences. It took several tries for him to convince them that he really did want nothing to do with the NAS.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Oct 10, 2015 - 06:10pm PT
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Thanks Wayne and I am glad you posted your feelings as they carry a lot of weight from days of old. I was also deeply bothered by the portrayal of Harding but there were so many other glaring inaccuracies that I took it for granted that the goal was to sell and the hell with the facts.
Having spent quality time with Ken Wilson in England on several occasions I have fond memories of his energy and intellectual drive. I have met few people that can match his incisive questioning and curiosity and it would have been fun to see him go head to head with Warren.
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gilly
climber
Mohawk Valley,Ca
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Oct 10, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
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Thanks Peter, always love hearing BATSO stories. I was a good friend of Jim Harper and boy you better believe he had some great stuff on Warren to share! A rare treat to hear first hand from someone who was there. Thanks again
Gill P.S. I believe Beasto was at Jims memorial service !
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:15am PT
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I sat around a few campfires in Camp 4 in the early 70's while Warren held court. There was always a jug of cheap red wine close at hand and the banter was definetly fueled by it. Even so, Warrens intelligence was evident in the biting wit of his repartee. He was definetly a multi faceted person.
Warren was the perfect foil to Robbins. For many, Royal's personality ran counter to the bohemian culture of Camp 4.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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The eleven years' seniority Warren had over Royal and even more over most everyone else climbing was a large aspect of how WH would fit in and how he fashioned himself as time wore on. And to look at WH back then as a young aspiring climber, there was a huge gap between us; he was nearly forty when I began climbing for instance, but still he had one and a half decades remaining of real climbing.
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Scoop
Mountain climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 16, 2015 - 09:48am PT
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A brief story. When I was 14 I was yearning to be a climber. Shortly after Hardings' Climb of Dawn Wall, I called a Warren Harding in Sacramento. He said, "No, I am not that Warren Harding, call his mother Agness." So I called Agness. She said Warren was living up in Truckee, actually Russell Valley, but that a friend was driving up to go climbing with Warren and why didn't I catch a ride with him to see Warren.
So a 14 year old kid shows up at Warren's cabin unannounced. This is at a time when Warren is arguably the most famous climber in the word. He treated me like family. Included me in a wild party that night where I drank my first beer. He took me climbing the next day, Kindergarden Crack on Donner Summit. He was as kind and generous as anyone I have met.
Fast forward 30 years, I moved to Truckee to run a conservation organization. One of my board members got Warren to come down to do three slides shows (he was living up near Redding) as fundraisers. He was drunk most of the time. The first show was at "The Passage," a popular Truckee eatery and bar, 15 years ago. The whole show I remember Warren saying, "Who cares, let's go to the bar." A second show in Reno was pretty sad. We had pizza before the show next door to the rock gym where he was presenting. Warren ordered wine. The waitress asked, red or white? Warren ordered carafes of both. He actually lost his balance and fell a couple of times during the show.
The third show in Truckee was completely packed. He had not been drinking that day and nailed it.
Warren said a lot during the three days, but I was most struck by how a thought that climbing was always just for fun. He was proud not to be a Valley dweller, "I had a job and had to work." For those from Truckee, you may not know that Warren was the road engineer that laid out Tahoe Donner.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 16, 2015 - 09:56am PT
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Wow, if the preceding page isn't the most awesome ever on ST then show me the money!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 16, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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Perhaps the tragedy was his lack of appreciation of how much of my own climbing career was a homage
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josan
Boulder climber
Chapel Hill, North Carolina
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Oct 16, 2015 - 10:12am PT
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To know him was to love him... no other - a legend. It really doesn't matter whether he was 'right' or 'wrong'... he WAS!
I had the good fortune to spend last hours with Warren - Mary Lou and Roger.
Yes, a legend and an extremely irreverent and funny man!
Jo Sanders
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 16, 2015 - 10:18am PT
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For those from Truckee, you may not know that Warren was the road engineer that laid out Tahoe Donner.
I lived in Truckee for a decade and never knew that. Thanks.
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Camster (Rhymes with Hamster)
Social climber
CO
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Oct 16, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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I lived with Warren and Alice in Moab for about 2 weeks in 1991.
I went there with a friend to talk to him about the NE Ridge of Williamson, one of his most underrated achievements considering he was so new to climbing then.
For that 2 weeks my friend Paul and I slept on air mattresses in the basement. We had hoped to get in some climbing but the weather was ridiculous----snowing [blizzarding, really] every day.
But we were pretty much doomed from the start as Warren kept us up til all hours, boozing and watching television, and occasionally talking climbing. Alice would wander off to bed around 11 pm, and hours later, Warren would too. I remember him saying "I really like sex, you know. And I think I'm pretty good at it."
Then, about 10:30 am, Warren would show up at the air mattresses and start kicking them, martini glass in hand, and say: "Time to get up Camdawg. Time to get up."
At the time, R&I had just done a cover story called "Yosemite Climbers" or something. It had (I think) the Hubers on the cover. There was no or little mention of Warren in the magazine. Warren held it up and said something like: "Aren't I a Yosemite climber? F*#k these people."
One funny comment was when we were watching some tennis match really late at night. Warren pointed at the TV and said" "This game is insane. I don't even understand what these people are trying to do."
Sounds a bit like climbing.
Anyway, he gave me a couple of signed Downward Bounds when we were leaving, which was pretty nice on his part. I treasure them to this day.
A year later or so, my girlfriend Ann and I went to visit Warren and Alice. Warren was pretty blasted when we got there (10 o'clock or something) and was wearing this huge white t-shirt. My wife----who loves animals----squatted down to pet one of his dogs. Warren wandered into the room and asked my wife if she wanted a drink. She looked up to say no, and realized the t-shirt was the only thing Warren was wearing.
Good times. He was part of my growing up, and I still miss him.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Oct 16, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
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Warren Harding was one bold, badass climber, one of the best rockclimbers who ever lived. Climb one of his routes and imagine being up there with 1950s gear, handmade pitons, a handful of heavy ass carabiners, pieces of rope for slings, prussik knots for ascenders, on a 2,000 ft or longer route that had never been climbed. None of the big wall mechanics that we take for granted had been worked out yet...youre running low on food and out of water and yet you press on. My admiration for the man and his courage and vision has no limits.
There are stiuations on the nose that are unimaginable on the FA, being the first to do the king swing? The belay at the end of the great roof? The final bolt ladder, put up in an overnight push, is an ungodly achievement. Most of Hardings original 1/4" hand drilled bolts were still in use when i climbed it. I tried to put myself in his place, drilling bolt after bolt, the next one always way over your head, in the dark... theres no way. It took a character with a level of courage, drive and physical ability that few possess.
Hats off to the incomparable Warren Harding. Rest in peace
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Oct 16, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
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I'm so psyched this got bumped
Batso forever
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Oct 17, 2015 - 12:44am PT
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An aside - I finally met royal robbins when he did a slide show st A-16 in san diego, maybe 15 years ago. Ive always really admired Robbins, so after the show i approached him and introduced myself and told him that he has always been my inspiration. He was gracious and we chatted a little bit and then i asked him about the dawn wall. I always thought that it showed great character to listen to his conscience and reverse himself in front of the whole world, and i only wanted to tell him that i looked up to him for that.
I asked how many pitches he had taken down before he quit pulling bolts. He said 5 or 6 in a terse, irritated tone, then said "i was going to be in big trouble no matter what i did at that point" It was clear that the issue was still very raw with him after all those years. End of conversation.
I had this old copy of advanced rockcraft that i had him autograph later on. As he signed it i told him that when i climbed the nose i had never followed a tension traverse, and that i did it by remembering the pictures in advanced rockcraft. His reply "thats more like it, thats the kind of story i want to hear".
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 17, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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How did I miss the beginning of this thread way back in 2009?
Approaching my 84th year in existence and the memories will dim if not illuminated with occasional flashes forced remembrance.
Warren and I were friends - a friendship that grew closer in our old age. We had some great times together. The only time we ever discussed the Dawn Wall was in print - in his book "Downward Bound". Never had a verbal exchange on the subject.
Nor have I ever exchanged views with Royal on the Dawn Wall subject except on the first bivouac when we decided to quit chopping bolts - about 4 pitches up, maybe a 7th of the entire route.
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snake
Mountain climber
sebastopol
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Oct 17, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
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I met Warren in the fall of 1967 when I was a badly scared little boy in way over his head on my first big Valley climb, the Lost Arrow. After silently watching my partner and I aimlessly thrash he calmly suggested how we might prevent seriously hurting or even killing ourselves. I never climbed with him again, but we did drink a lot of wine together later on. Did he drink too much? Obviously. Did he drive too fast? Yes. Did he have too many girlfriends? Well,that's not possible. Did he place too many bolts on his first ascents? Debatable.
Even after the NW face of Half Dome had been climbed El Cap was regarded as impossible;just too f** big. Warren was the only one with a big enough pair of steel balls to not only go up on it, but to also have the tenacity, perseverance and mental stamina to stick it out until he succeeded. Criticize his style if you like, but you can't argue with the bottom line; he went up and did it while everyone else was lying around Camp 4 smoking dope and day dreaming. I've forgotten how many critiques I've read comparing his 18 month ascent of The Nose with the 7 day 2nd ascent a few years later. Virtually none of these accounts delve into the advantages the 2nd ascent party had; they knew it could be done,the route had been worked out,the bolts placed and the equipment was better. I've yet to read a critique comparing the 2nd ascent of the Nose with Lynn Hill's one day free ascent or the numerous sub 3 hour climbs made by today's elite.
In 1954 Roger Bannister became the first human to run a sub 4 minute mile at a time when that feat was also considered impossible. Last spring 2 high school athletes went sub 4 and the current world record is 3:43. Do these later performances detract from Bannister's accomplishment? All of you, every one of you should give Warren his due. He was visionary enough to be the first and he was the person who broke the barrier that today allows bare foot pimply-faced 17 year old kids from Iowa to do The Big Stone on their first trip to The Valley. I also seriously doubt if many of his critics could have emulated his performance on the first ascent of the south face of Mt. Watkins with Pratt and Chouinard.
Excuse me all to hell, but tenacity, perseverance and mental toughness are just as big a part of climbing as is style and ethics. As is what I consider to be Warren's most endearing personality characteristic; an almost complete disdain for authority figures. He went out climbed and led his life as he saw fit in spite of how the "Valley Christians" felt and some of his first ascents are still among the most popular climbs in "The Valley." Had Warren lived on the East Coast there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been a member of the Vulgarians. RIP Batso. "Semper Farcisimus." Walt Vennum, Sebastopol, Calif.
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