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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 01:03am PT
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We're mincing words now.....terrorism, Islamic radicalism, Christian fundamentalism, etc....
It's Islamic extremism. Pure, simple. Debate it all ya want.
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4damages
climber
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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Dr. F,
I just re-edited the previous post.
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seele
climber
tahoe
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:39pm PT
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Thanks to the media, I'm registering as a republican !!!!. Sick of the BS. Let me decide who is a muslim jihadist or not. There are terrorists of all religions, but face the facts. Fanatical muslims want freedom loving people dead!!!. Sick of msnbc and cnn telling me this terrorist is suffering from ptsd. Next thing you know i'm going be be taxed so muslims can get sympanthy checks signed by obama. That takes away from my clmbing funds !!!!!!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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Might Hiker wrote: "McVeigh had an ideology that was just as evil, repulsive and confused as that of any religious fanatic."
McVeigh's terrorist act was pure evil but, perhaps like many other terrorists throughout the world, he had a legitimate grievance.
The US government essentially murdered (or at least committed reckless manslaughter to use slightly more precise legal jargon) scores of people, including many children, in the Waco massacre. For some reason, that set McVeigh off and Oklahoma City was payback.
McVeigh's reaction--to kill a bunch of innocent people--was evil and nuts. But I've always been extremely disappointed that there wasn't more public outrage and demand for accountability over the government slaughter at Waco. (And to those of you who think it's only the Republicans who are bloodthirsty killers, remember that was all done under the Dems.)
McVeigh had an interesting point in labeling the children killed in his Oklahoma City attack as "collateral damage." That rightly strikes most people (including myself) as incredibly callous and evidence of his extreme depravity. But most of us cheerfully accept the US government "collateral damage" against huge numbers of innocents in our bombing attacks in Iraq, Afghainstan, and Pakistan. Again, that pisses me off to no end and I cannot understand how the vast majority of US citizens seem to think it's perfectly fine, or are just simply clueless.
To put in another way: I cannot understand the incredible amount of scrutiny that capital punishment receives in the US, when it is always used against a truly horrid criminal who has had the benefit of multiple appeals at the state and federal levels. But for each US criminal who receives capital punishment, how many scores of foreign children are blown up because the they had the misfortune to be proximate people who we think are likely to be terrorists? How much "due process" have any of those people had? How the heck is any of that "legal"? And it's going on under Obama just as much as under Bush.
No matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, I've always agreed with the slogan "if you're not mad, it's because you're not paying attention."
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 14, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
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"There are terrorists of all religions, but face the facts. Fanatical muslims want freedom loving people dead!!!."
Funny but be sure to check out how many of these Fanatical muslims come from countries where the US has stood against their citizens freedoms in favor of friendly kings and dictators. The High-jackers were mostly Saudi with their king to whom we sell all their military stuff. We overthrew the democratically elected Iranian president and installed the Shah. Egypt has a despot that's in our pock and we supported Saddam.
Maybe if they didn't see their lack of freedom in terms of US foreign policy, things wouldn't be so tense. You don't want the US ruled by Islam and Muslims don't want the US ruling their countries. Is that so far-fetched?
Peace
Karl
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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Yeah, but they were taking out ARMED RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS, who were followers of an alleged child molester and father of at least 15 children inside the compound, who refused to cooperate, so it was justified.
Yeah, most people just ignore the whole thing--the few people who respond at all say what you said. (Can't tell if you are being sarcastic in whole or part--my apologies if I'm misreading your post.)
I wish the people who have so much sympathy for the monsters who are sentenced to death had 1% of that sympathy for the much larger group of innocents killed by US military and police. Since we live in a so-called democracy, we're all partly responsible for those crimes.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 09:39pm PT
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Dr. F:
One problem with your analysis is that your are looking at past deaths to project future deaths.
The deaths caused by smoking will go down in the future as fewer people smoke.
But the deaths caused by terrorists will go up hugely if, for example, the terrorists get a nuke.
You have to be a bit smarter than just looking at the past when trying to predict the future.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 16, 2009 - 11:52am PT
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Good work, weschrist. They won't get it, but good work anyway.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 16, 2009 - 12:16pm PT
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Run some cases by me, Weschrist, and I'll call the terrorists for you.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Do you consider Christians who commit and/or condone acts of violence against doctors and clinics that provide abortions TERRORISTS?
Yep.
But Christians all over the world???
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4damages
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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bluering(not petite),
On 10-14-09 at approximately 5:30 P.M. PST at the NW corner of 1'st
and main a woman was lying on the ground holding her chest and
screaming.I just walked out of CVS or Right Aid and asked a black hair
Latin American woman what occurred. She stated she was stabbed in the
stomach. At this same time the fire dept. arrived. I saw no blood, and the
fire dept. unbuttoned the lying woman's blouse. There was no blood on
her breast or stomach (her hands still there) that I could see, and the fire
dept. immediately told everybody to leave.
On 10-15-09 at approximately 11:00 A.M PST I thought I saw this woman
who was alleged to have been stabbed. I spoke to her, though she denied
it was her. Approximately 30 minutes later I spoke to a police officer whom
confirmed a stabbing the previous day at the above location. At this time
I went back to the location to see if there was blood. There was dried blood
with a marker left with the blood. This blood was inconsistent with
the position of the body I saw, unless of a menstrual cycle or wound
elsewhere.This woman never mentioned being stabbed, nor did I hear the
fire dept. ask her what occurred. She was immediately driven away in the fire
depts. ambulance.
On 10-16-09 I spoke to 2 police officers I know from the same dept. as
the one who verified a alleged stabbing. They heard of no such incident
and I can not locate any news regarding this incident.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Dec 11, 2009 - 04:33pm PT
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"muslims . . . infest"
Laugh when all goes bad?
Silver you're not.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Dec 11, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
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One sure way to make a lot these days
is to be an ammunition manufacturer.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 28, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
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Pretty Fishy stuff.
On one of those 9-11 threads, they had a video link to an italian 10 part video series where they interviewed the guy in charge of Visas at the US embassy in Saudi Arabia and he was talking about how they used to process visas for the "Afghan Freedom Fighters" for the CIA and that the 9-11 highjackers visa were filled out lame and would never have been approved if people weren't deliberately looking the other way.
That sure seems to be the case here. The guy's dad goes to the US authorities and raises a huge red flag about his son and the guy still gets on a plane with a bomb? He's practically screaming "My son is a terrorist, watch out!!"
Meanwhile, plenty of respectable and known visitors from first world countries get cheated out of visiting the US every day over the more minor visa technicalities.
Give me a break. We want these terrorist attacks to justify nasty foreign policy over oil and to pass laws to control us at home
Peace
Karl
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Dec 28, 2009 - 01:45pm PT
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We have some Saudis attending college here, and they're good friends with my nephew.
They have no problem bringing contraband to the US, because their families are on a special list that tells authorities to look the other way when checking their bags.
Good thing they bring hookahs back, not bombs:-)
edit: I don't live in fear from "terrorists"--nor should anyone else, life is to be lived in zest not cower.
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