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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 16, 2009 - 08:43pm PT
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The Bible is the fairytale of uneducated people complete with incest, infanticide, and murder... all ordered by God himself. Vague, misguided attempts at moral guidance from a time when awareness of the world was limited to an area smaller than United States.
God blessed us all reason... and THIS is what you choose?
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The problem is that the "Bible" is a vastly cobbled work, and while "fairytale" and "uneducated" might pertain to literal bastardizations of ancient biblical allegories and metaphors (Jonah, Tower of Babel, etc.), to apply that same charge to the Song of Songs or The Beatitudes/Sermon on the Mount (to mention a few), is to foolishly dismiss some illuminated material IMO.
JL
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 16, 2009 - 10:21pm PT
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Jan, thanks for the science lesson, it was a fascinating read. I loved the Jean Aul books, they were a cool account of how life could have been back in time. The hot sex and intrigue made them even more appealing.
Back to the discussion heathens. God bless you all.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 16, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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I quite enjoy learning more about fossils and human origins and such. Thank you for the lessons!
Much of the Clan of the Cave Bear was filmed in Cathedral Provincial Park, about 200 km east of Vancouver. I've never seen it - although I like reading about history, including historical fiction, I've never developed much of a taste for Auel's fur-bodice rippers.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 16, 2009 - 10:57pm PT
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There are no problems except for all the closed minded stuck in the mud people here, everywhere.
Those minds are filled to the brim overflowing. There's no more room in the buffer.
Dead dead dead minds ............
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MH2
climber
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:31am PT
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MH2-
So far the oldest DNA that has been tested is Neanderthal at about 30,000 years. They have enough fossil fragments to do the whole genome if they wanted, but that isn't necessary if you test the genes we know are most likely to mutate and compare them which is what modern DNA testing services do.
Thanks again, Jan.
I'm surprised to hear that.
It isn't the comparison-for-dating purposes I was thinking about, it was whether we ever get to the point where we can take the genome information and deduce aspects of the anatomy, like the central nervous system.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:50am PT
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I'm a fossil!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 17, 2009 - 01:03am PT
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John Long,
Few read or appreciate Song of Songs. A great read with a wealth of meaning when one takes the time to embrace oneself in the rich text. Song of Songs contains the wisdom and knowledge to change/shape a heart, life and relationship with God and another human..... with love.
Thanks for the mention. Joy and Peace, lynne
Edit: the sermon on the mount and the beatitudes ..... this is life, the words make life, I have chosen to make them my life the past 22 months. The words challenge an individual to step up and live the words.
Simple, Profound, with the ability not only to change a life but a world....if worked out in the lives of individuals, communities, nations.
Just my take.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 17, 2009 - 03:44am PT
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Lynne-
What always makes me sad, is that so many people will never see the beauty and transformational potential of all great scripture, Christian and otherwise, because they get so hung up on history. They choose to focus instead, on the worst examples of what has happened in the past in the name of religion, instead of the universal spiritual message of peace and service.
Locker-
The laughing Jesus. Perfect antidote!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 17, 2009 - 03:55am PT
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Mtnmun and Mighty Hiker-
I have only read Clan of the Cave Bear and there were no steamy sex scenes in that. No doubt their presence helps explain the phenomenal success of the series. And here I naively thought that the public was really that into prehistory!
MH2-
Our science is no where near doing with DNA what you suggest. It may happen in the future, but maybe not, since Neanderthal was a dead end.
Gobee-
We're all potential fossils, both physical and mental! My own frontal lobes show "early shrinkage" due to prolonged exposure to altitude. To ensure success as a physical fossil though, drinking water with lots of flouride is the best bet.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2009 - 11:24am PT
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Do the math!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:39pm PT
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It would depend on which side of the tracks the cloning took place...
He would be a new born baby!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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obviuosly it wouldn't know anything about living as a Neandertal, like culture or language Perhaps the Neanderthal can live in Camp 4 for a while. That may help.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
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We don't know that. Neanderthal did have larger brains that homo saps do...
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 17, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
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"Its IQ would be lower than a humans, so It probably be more susceptable to falling in with crazy religious cults, and believing in fanasties like Jebus or Santa"
Scarecrow: But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking don't they?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 17, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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maybe Neanderthals feel into a deep existential funk, lost interest in procreating because of the futility of Homo neanderthalensis' place in a universe bereft of meaning and absent of higher purpose. I can see them watching the silly Homo sapiens engage in ecstatic religious acts completely irrational in their beliefs, which gave them hope, as a species, to get them through grindingly depressing natural setbacks.
Who knew this irrational hope would be an evolutionary positive trait that would help ensure the survival of H. sapiens while the deeply intellectual H. neanderthalensis would extinct itself by thinking too much...
...how's that for an anthropological fantasy...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2009 - 01:23pm PT
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There is a whole world of fascinating conjecture about Neanderthals;
1) It has been said that the Basque language has no classic indo-European roots. One theory ( I have no idea of the facts to support it) is that it is descended from the Neanderthal oral language.
2) Some book I read in the '90's about "flatheads" hypothosized that they interbred into the h. sap popu;ations, but that there are individuals arounds that manifest a number of traits from the Nean gene pool; high foreheads, arching eybrows and some other things. Think Jean Claude Vandamme, Max Von Sydow, or my paternal grandfather from Sweden, John Anderson.
But back to the Jesus height issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUiUmXkr-Co
The song is clever, The Video is not Zomgits' best work but has it's moments.
edit, Gobee, hoh yeah!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 17, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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Interesting that this crowd is more inspired by speculating about Neanderthal than the Yeti. I wonder what that means? It seems like both would fit well into the Camp 4 lifestyle.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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I've always been fascinated by stories of the abominable snowman, but I never have seen one, Yeti.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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I shouldn't do this, but it's soo, easy,....
(Fortunarely I already live in hell, And heaven...)
by that criteria, Howeird, why would anyone, believe in god?
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