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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 20, 2017 - 07:12pm PT
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OMGless
In like 2 1/2 years, a motley assortment of aluminum oxide addled climber types have spun over 9000 replies to argue over quintessentially unanswerable Platroll bait - priorities, dudes and dudettes, the damn Licky 1977 Crash thread has taken twelve years to just reach 2667. Come on, leave the darn philosophy tripe to those who actually possess living brain tissue, and get back to real important Soup or Topo issues.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 20, 2017 - 08:30pm PT
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Party pooper
;>(
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 20, 2017 - 08:41pm PT
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sycorax: Why argue with one of Craig's poorly conveyed trolls, Mike and Paul?
It’s fairly infrequent that I start something. Usually I’m replying to something stupid.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 20, 2017 - 09:00pm PT
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AE: Come on, leave the darn philosophy tripe to those who actually possess living brain tissue, and get back to real important Soup or Topo issues.
I guess we’re taking up your space.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 21, 2017 - 11:59am PT
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Do you guys know what a Fatwa is? It is an infallible religious ruling.
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WBraun
climber
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May 21, 2017 - 12:27pm PT
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You fools, God is Not an idea ever.
Only clueless fool atheists come up with stoopid ideas from their clueless minds .......
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 21, 2017 - 03:45pm PT
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^^You are such a nice and inspiring guy, Werner. Surely you can't be this bad in real life.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 21, 2017 - 06:36pm PT
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^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but Base, he's right. (The God-not-an-idea thing.)
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 21, 2017 - 09:25pm PT
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Do you guys know what a Fatwa is? It is an infallible religious ruling.
Nah. That's an 'ex cathedra' papal bull.
A fatwa is merely an opinion given by a mufti - a learned person.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 22, 2017 - 10:08am PT
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Peterson's picked up 148k views for his Psychological Significance of Biblical Stories in just two days.
Folks like Jan and others who claim religions are evolving can look to Peterson for evidence, support, I think - as a living eg of a viable agent of change or as a popular conduit for adaptation and upgrade.
The man's got an impressively informative, thought-provoking, broad-ranging "stream of consciousness" that he has no problem exercising in public - quite in contrast btw to that other guy, imo, at the head of our government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w
His "stream of consciousness" is quite taken with myth and archetype.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 22, 2017 - 10:14am PT
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Yeah, but Base, he's right.
Of course. Because one interpretation of anything is as good as any other. /s
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Norton
Social climber
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May 22, 2017 - 11:03am PT
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just watched it
thanks for posting the video, Fructose
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 22, 2017 - 11:14am PT
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2017 - 11:15am PT
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HFCS it's you that is interpreting everything.
I'm not.
Your whole arguments are totally based on mental speculations, guessing, and limited to only materialism.
You have zero first hand real experience with real religion.
Your only experience is secular, academic and your own biased brainwashing.
All that biased brainwashing you project onto the world outside of your own self.
You're totally clueless of your own real self .....
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 22, 2017 - 11:38am PT
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The only real question here is if there is a God, or in Werner's case, I believe, many Gods?
There is no real data, in a scientific sense. Something concrete to hang a hat on. Still, the VAST majority of humans on this planet believe in God or at the least something deep and spiritual that cannot be measured or felt or measured. Many spiritual people are deeply and absolutely convinced that some sort of Supreme Being exists. It is part of the most cherished aspects of people's lives.
OK.
There is no point in trying to convince someone whose mind is made up, and I really don't even want to puncture anyone's cherished beliefs any more than I want the Mormon's who annually come knocking, to convince me God does exist. I believe in freedom of religion. I also believe in freedom from religion. Thank goodness that in this country the Constitution says just that. Even though most of the founders believed in God, they remembered what had happened in situations such as the Inquisition, and took God out of the law. Within only Christianity, there have been sects that have gone to war and killed each other over their faiths.
We see this going on today. The Sunni's bomb the snot out of the Shia, and Shia militias are at the front fighting ISIL. Islamic sects kill each other every single day. For info on the difference between Islamic sects, see the Wiki page on Islam. They are based on connections with the progeny of Muhammad, the prophet. Something that from the outside, seems small and unimportant.
I say believe in what you want to believe. Just don't try to ram it down my throat, or make me feel bad by telling me that I will spend eternity in hell. I stick up for people who have faith just as much as I stick up for those who want to be free from faith.
I was raised in a pretty final Christian home, grew up going to Sunday School and church. By the time I was 14, I started asking questions that should NOT have been asked.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 22, 2017 - 01:09pm PT
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There is no real data, in a scientific sense.
It doesn't matter if there is a god or not - at least to me not a whit. My mystical mind says there is something beyond mechanism that appears experientially to be conscious - not that it cares about me; the anthropomorphic concept of god seems silly - or cute in a child and ridiculous and unbecoming in an adult.
There is enough "magic" and "mystery" in the real world to keep me delighted for a few lifetimes.
And, the dance between the subconscious & unconscious mind and in the realms of archetypes and myths as shared in the religions and shamanistic traditions of the world is rich with insight into human nature and the mind.
My pursuit of the truth within religious, spiritual and healing traditions - with conventional and "alternative" medicine approaches included - has kept me fascinated for 45 years. It more fun now than ever.
I was raised in a pretty final Christian home, grew up going to Sunday School and church. By the time I was 14, I started asking questions that should NOT have been asked.
Me too. My grandmother would drag me to Southern Baptist church all the time. She was so excited when I asked for a copy of King James for my own. She regretted it after I'd read it through and started having conversations with the preacher about how he kept quoting the Bible out of context. Also asked why he called himself a Christian when all he ever preached about was the Old Testament. Got me in trouble and got me to read the othr stuff world myths, shamanism, occult, shaivism, tantra, Koran, Upanishads, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, Torah, Kabala - how fun was that.
Science is the sh#t. But, don't limit experience! It's all worth looking at - closely, joyfully and critically.
"The intuitive mind is a gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant."
~ Albert Einstein
Truth has nothing to do with the conclusion, and everything to do with the methodology.
~ Stefan Molyneux
“Dance, when you're broken open. Dance, if you've torn the bandage off. Dance in the middle of the fighting. Dance in your blood. Dance when you're perfectly free.”
~ Jalaluddin Rumi
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2017 - 02:11pm PT
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Mark Force -- "It doesn't matter if there is a god or not.
It matters 100%, but not to people who are just plain guessing, don't care and are opinionated with no real clue like you.
Science is the only thing that will give full knowledge.
There's material science and spiritual science.
Both are needed to understand the truth.
Modern science is foolishly lost in material science only.
Spiritual science is lost in this modern age in a lot of sectarian dogmas, irrational fanaticism and unauthorized mystic and mystery cults, of which most of you people read about and make your foolish judgments.
Only academic knowledge will never lead you to the truth, ie reading only books.
This why you people make these idiotic statements such as "No one knows" "There is no need for God" "The worlds Myths"
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 22, 2017 - 02:24pm PT
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Werner, What is the difference in outcome from my believing there is god versus my believing there is no god?
If I do one the outcome is exactly the same as doing the other.
God doesn't care...
;-)
Now my actions in accord with a philosophy or ethic mean a great deal in terms of outcome.
Whether you believe is very important to you.
It doesn't matter to me, though I find the question interesting.
What is very important is that you have the right to believe what you believe and I have the right to believe what I believe and the secular world has no right to do anything about it.
I have friends who believe batshit crazy stuff, but their my firends because they're ethical.
I like you, too, cuz you show up and make yourself useful. You're solid. You're not all about yourself. A damn I wish I could climb 20% as good as you. A lot of the time you even save people's lives at risk to yourself. There's not much better than that about someone and I respect that immensely.
Whether I believe in god or not doesn't change a thing about that.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2017 - 02:30pm PT
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God cares
YOU don't care.
It's not about belief, I can believe anything but that never makes it so.
There is absolute truth, and everything is ultimately measured against that standard.
Even the gross materialists have their standards.
But you don't care so you'll never find it and instead just take academic quotes from someone to make some show ......
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