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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Sep 14, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
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Why do you have two usernames?
Madboiter and madbolter? Why not use just 1?
The FA's look like tools in that video.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Sep 14, 2012 - 03:42pm PT
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In the vid on that page, he hits that beak about five hundred times, is that normal for sandstone climbing, Jeremy?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 14, 2012 - 03:52pm PT
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How can you support Mr. Jensen?
Hey, don't count me in. I ain't suckin' no one's dick.
Jensen chose to climb the Spaniard's route. Seem strange that, given what he had to say about it, he chose to continue and finish it. I'd have come right down, started up something worthy. Now there's two set of holes, in parallel, up parts of the Titan. Right over the trail, too, visible to tourists. This makes us all look bad. It's just this kind of ego-driven nonsense that gets the attention of land-managers. A pox on both houses, I say.
Here's Jensen, on the Titan:
I'm NOT happy with what I'm doing here, but the SA can be nothing else. At least once I'm done, the thing will be repeatable by anybody that wants a fun clip-up route with a bit of A3 mixed in here and there. It's honestly just sad that the FA team forced something to go there at all. There's no "route" here, that's for sure!
And here's Jensen, talking about his Winds of Change: "After doing the Sea, we did adopt the tactic of "enhancing" hooks so that we could run things out more."
So, umm, first ascent team drilling to "run things out more" is not the same as first ascent team drilling to "force something"?
Please explain.
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madboIter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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Been too busy to think lately. Ultimately I'll get the pics and final TR finished and posted.
For the moment I'll just say that had I (or somebody) not finished the route, the FA team would have howled that nobody could "judge the route" because no SA had been done. So, somebody had to see the thing through to see what all of it was really like. I kept hoping things would get better, but they never did. The route is a botch job all the way up. But it needed a full SA to even be able to report that and to leave the FA team with no way to dodge all of the facts.
Regarding "2 lines of holes," etc., well, there are "holes" and then there are holes. My holes are FAR apart and have metal in them that will last. The FA line of holes will go away over time. There's no natural line there, so if there's going to be a line of holes, at least it's as well done as possible. And it's not all holes on my ascent. I bypassed a LOT of their holes with natural placements and got my holes 2 to 3 times as far apart as they did theirs. I would guess that I drilled 1/3 as many as the FA team did. So, the route is much better now than what they left behind, and it can now be repeated without additional drilling. It's sustainable.
Regarding "visible from the trail," I just have to laugh at that.
It's true that no route should have gone there, imho. But a route did, and outlandish claims were made. There was one and only one way to fully know the real story. So, there it is.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 14, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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It was/is a GREAT natural line that you can barely even see when you are on it.
That, really is the beauty of the best of the Fisher Tower aid climbing; to place a beak in a seam, straight off the belay, then stand up, place another, same seam. And this seam? You can't see any more than what's directly in front of you, because it's just a color change, a paler line with, maybe, a very slight depression, sliding its way up into who knows where. And you ride that seam, beak by beak, until you get to a point where nothing works. Uh oh. You're stuck. You probe around, reach side to side, down, up, all the time worrying that the beak you're standing on will blow, and then you reach out far to the side, so stretched you can't breathe, arms out at full extension, and tap, tap, and mysteriously a birdbeak sinks its way into an unseen crease. Yes! You step over, real slow and gentle, and stand up and off you go again.
Hours go by but you're so wrapped up in what you're doing, so hyper-aware of every crystal, every slight sound and every little nuance of the rock in front of you that you don't notice the time, the shifting shadows, hunger, heat, dry throat, sore feet, anything. You're working with the rock, probing its secrets.
Those pitches are rare, special. Not may of them around. Hope you route is still pretty much as you left it!
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 14, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
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had I (or somebody) not finished the route, the FA team would have howled that nobody could "judge the route" because no SA had been done.
Yeah, true that. Bit of a Catch 22.
You either bail once you understand how the route has been so grossly misrepresented, or you finish the route just so you can't be accused of bailing for the wrong reasons.
You never really know what's coming up until you reach it. You could bail, thinking you've done the botch-job crux only to discover, years later, that a genuinely hard, cool pitch lay up ahead.
What would I have done?
Hard to say. I'd be very, very reluctant to start drilling during a second ascent. That would seem poor style; I'd have a real hard time justifying that to myself. I might have borrowed my wife's astronomical telescope to really study the beast (that telescope's no stranger to the Fishers). I might, if sufficiently intrigued, have scurried up the Finger of Fate then rappelled the line to really probe around with hammer and knifeblade or two and see what was in store.
But that's a lot of work. I'm not that hungry these days. Probably I'd have simply bailed, gone elsewhere.
To be honest, there's no way I ever would have started. The whole "A6" hype and the embarrassing, horrendous Bear Ghrylls-meets-the-tug-toner video (I would have studied this frame by frame [the Spaniard's video, not the tug toner one], to learn as much as possible before starting--homework!) would have turned me right off.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Sep 14, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
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this whole mess....
Fancy guys from spain with helmet cams,flashy clothes, and sponsorship are just ruining another desert tower. Old guys who don't know when to give up create another eyesore (dude, after pitch two we got the picture you should have come down and just called it bunk)
Jeremy and Crusher have shown me how much further desert aid can go- and I know it can go farther. All routes here are really too rare (planet wise) to let the world know "hi, I'm here, look at my ass". I have stumbled upon Bill Forrest's anchors, Fred Beckey's "bolt laddders", Todd Gordon's relics, Alby's tuna and chili cans, and seen and met weird people (and really weird things) with those who live every day in the 4 corners region.
In 10, 20, maybe 50 years people might go WTF, that bastard langmade, or Harvey, or gimpy, or gagner went up this shiat?
drink beer, eat well, and just casually say "yea the desert is a cool place to climb".
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 03:51am PT
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I just wanna say it seems to me you are a very closed inbred group (this also happens on the other side of the pool anyway) and flirting with high inbreeding coefficieng brings mental weakness...
But don't worry Jeremy, Weird Science hasn't been disfigured with bolts and rivets as God Jensen did (respect is a word that we all know in Europe). Just for your information, the people attempting SA of Pelut's new route on Kingfisher will need more than 60 peckers for the 1rst pitch. But well, seeing the kind of aid climbing you practice and support in the Towers, perhaps instead of peckers you'll need just bolts.
I just wanna add that Pelut urgently wrote to Jensen's blog to contact him during his last summer stage in the Towers (everybody can see it in the blog) and strangely God Jensen didn't dare to answer (not ubiquity gift for Richy!). He knows why, but bolting a route and ignoring the authors of this route when they are there, say much about this superhero and all the exploits he claims have done...
Be well all of you and climb hard!
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Sep 17, 2012 - 08:29am PT
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Second cousins are so hot right now.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 10:27am PT
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Yes! From July 6th to August 15th, Mr. God Jensen doesn't answer, and from August 4th to 15th, Pelut is pressing for having a beer together and talk about the new bolted route because he was opening a new route in Kingfisher and making the SA of Weird Science...
Perhaps he had no internet access but, oh surprise, in August 7th, Mr. Jensen wrote a post in Supertopo!
And all these are objective facts!
Oh man, what's wrong with Richy?
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Sep 17, 2012 - 10:41am PT
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Hmm. I see the posts through July where they had a good dialogue. There's a few posts from Pelut in August that Richard doesn't seem to have addressed yet.
Were I to hazard a guess, I suspect he legitimately did not see Pelut's later posts on his blog - I didn't see much activity from him through most or all of August. By the sound of it he had a ton of stuff going on during the time that Pelut put up those posts.
I believe that when he has a look at what Pelut had to say, he'll have a lengthy response up shortly thereafter - it's not really congruent with his style to dodge this sort of thing. Maybe try emailing him, just in case?
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 11:18am PT
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Well, since my point of view it's more congruent with Jensen's style saying "goofballs" to the FA team, bolting a route he had not opened, claiming the topo is completely useless and ignoring the First Ascenders meeting request to talk about everything in the web page he has created "ex profeso" to make known his epic SA... Ego problems?
But perhaps, the saddest thing is seeing the Fisher Towers aid climbing communtity applauding his truth and ridiculing the FA team just because they are from Catalonia (it's not exactly Spain!). Beyer's route name in Kingfisher was Death of American Democracy, wasn't it?
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Sep 17, 2012 - 11:30am PT
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Well, the only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing.
Will watch this thread with great interest. But for now, off to bed. See you in 8.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 11:36am PT
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+1 Da_Dweeb! Good night!
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Sep 17, 2012 - 11:41am PT
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Rivet Hanger, boy you got a hard on for the wooden peg using then sawing off, copperhead trenching Euro couple. You in to that stuff huh? Kinky.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
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Sorry man, my English level does not include slang...
All I can say about wood and copper is what Pelut says in Jensen's web page: they are used together, a thing that seems scary for Jensen, who decided to bolt the route! You support that?
And in addition, do you thing the FA team lifted a handsaw chain up there and used it while hanging of a line of coppers or any other precarious pieces? Come on!
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Sep 17, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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"All I have to say in response is that you can’t drill a line of bashies for 1000 feet and call that a route. You drilled bashies into blank rock when you should have used “mini-bolts” for all of those blank placements (most of them!). You drilled for almost every placement. There was no natural line here. You just manufactured a route where there was no line to follow. And the rating is absurd, totally absurd."
Richard Jensen in response to the First Ascentionist
Now, why Jensen continued the route? maybe he is crazy!
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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When you've not opened the route, you can say that you don't like the style, that you'd have opened in another way, but at least in Europe, you cannot modify the route (well, obviously you can, but everybody will think you are a motherfu--er and nobody will support you). And I think that everybody can understand that is not same to hang on a line of these pieces http://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/?attachment_id=205 that in a line of rivets like this! http://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/?attachment_id=210
If you practice aid climbing you know what I mean.
In my opinion, bolting and destroying the route portraits the psychology of this dude...
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Sep 17, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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Hi Jeremy, my name is Pere Larocalla!
Very interested on your coming trip to the Towers. Take pictures of the destruction Jensen did on Titan (shinning bolts and belay chains, you know...). You could contact Pelut and attemp his new route by the way...
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!