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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Mar 11, 2015 - 11:30pm PT
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just move to washington, plenty of water up here,
and free pizza on the streets of OlyWA,
load up and then go die on rainier,
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 05:49am PT
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Ken M. Yes, it's not toilet to tap. While technically you are right, in many ways it is. People are allowed to splash around and play on the water, and eat fish caught from it. However, the reclaimed water has never been used as a potable water source for the reasons you stated. But this project long ago showed this possiblily could be a reality. As a former hydrogeologist who mostly worked on groundwater contamination projects, I found the treatment system is quite effecient and clever combining natural processes with technology. I doubt it will be used as a drinking water source any time soon, but Santee Lakes seemed ahead of it's time really. It's about time we considered sewage waste streams as a water source for irrigation at a minimum.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 12, 2015 - 06:30am PT
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Dying on Ranier, apart from the incovenience, would be extremely embarassing.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:43am PT
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Yea, the toilet to tap statement was very misleading. I think I just didn't finish the sentence up but I forgot what I was trying to say. Just as a note, they have been using the reclaimed water from the Santee Lakes facility for irrigation. It gets sold to a number of parks, schools, and golf courses. When I visited the facilities a long time ago, I don't believe they had any irrigation clients. Essentially they were just recharging the local groundwater basin with the excess.
Also, Ken M, I am also interested in a TR/any takaway from this conference you are attending.
Chris
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:51am PT
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Dying on Ranier, apart from the incovenience, would be extremely embarassing.
No kidding. It might not be the best beer, but it's not THAT bad.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Mar 12, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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skcreidc:
Desalination is not cost effective yet. But as the cost of water goes up it will become so. Down here in San Diego County, there's been plant under construction in Carlsbad. I believe it's supposed to go on line sometime in 2016. Supposedly, it will produce 50 million gallons of water per day and will provide 7% of the potable water needs for the San Diego region.
Israel has a brand new desalination plant, Sorek, slated to produce (maybe, by now, already does produce) 165 million gallons per day, three times the size of the Carlsbad plant:
They have worked hard to make it bigger, cheaper, more cost-effective. With the ongoing drought, only a matter of time before CA ramps up its desalination program.
http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/534996/megascale-desalination/
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 17, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
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Every time I get a nice carpet of 100% natural, drought-tolerant, no-water-required landscaping growing good here, The County Of San Bernardino issues me a "weed abatement notice", threating me with The County coming by to kill my landscaping - and charging me government rate for the work - if I don't kill it myself first.
Last year, The State passed a law preventing HOAs from fining residents who have natural, drought-tolerant landscaping on their property. I wrote the Assemblywoman who authored the law a letter asking her why she couldn't extend the same prohibitions to The County, you know, if the drought is so bad, and everything. I still haven't heard back.
I'm waiting for a nice, breezy day to return my "proof of compliance" to the weed abatement notice. My proof of compliance usually takes the form of an aerial photo, showing my property as the only one among my neighbors that's good-to-go.
My next-door-neighbor, whose grass lawn is the size of half a football field, and who waters his grass EVERY day. He doesn't know what a weed abatement notice even is. The County leaves him alone, while they're on MY ass every year.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Mar 17, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
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Our local ski hill closed yesterday for the season due to a lack of snow:
Mid March is typically the height of the snow pack. BTW it's ironic they're building desalination plants powered by fossil fuel, we're on a slippery slope.
Hey California, we've been called the land of fruits and nuts so why not add pricks to the list? One of my favorite gardens is the Huntington Cactus Garden, sure beats having a lawn. More interesting to look at, it attracts cool reptiles and birds, keeps the kids off, provides limited area for the dogs to sh*t and doesn't require any water yet the plants will thrive:
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 17, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
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Mr Milktoast writes:
"Hey chaz have you considered attending the next county board of supes meeting and demanding some action?"
That's a good idea. To make it happen, I'll have to venture into San Bernardino after dark, which is always exciting.
I did write my Supervisor a while back, and received the standardized happy horseshit letter thanking me for my interest of the civic process in return.
A few months later, that same Supe was arrested for corruption - and later still for Meth possession-abuse ( which explains a few things ). Last I heard, he was doing time in The Joint. Flew too close to the sun, I guess.
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missjr
Trad climber
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Mar 17, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 17, 2015 - 11:55pm PT
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Just back from the 2015 WateReuse conference. Very encouraging.
I was on a panel with the state regulator who issued the new rules today, Felicia Marcus. Amazing, brilliant person.
There is a LOT of amazing work being done on increasing the reliability and efficiency of technical processes involve with water, and decreasing the cost of current processes. There is a lot of interest in all this, and a lot of smart people are getting involved in finding solutions.
The real key, in my opinion, is for citizens like us to provide the political cover for political leaders to do the things that they already know needs to happen. It is rare for a politician to get ahead of their voters.
As Chas learned, one has to be very knowledgeable to make things happen. If you write to a politician who does not represent you, you will get no response, unless you are contributing money to them.
If we do not demand that our politicians support sustainable and advanced water processes, then we will not get them.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:52am PT
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hey there say, chaz... do you 'sculpt' it up a bit, you know... so they can't say it is 'running wild' weeds?...
can you set a few decorative rocks, etc, and things that would show it is
wrong for them to say your yard is 'disapproved' ?
my mom would love your yard, for the record, :)
our front yard, is unlike the grass lawn look, too, at my mom's house...
she does have some plants, but all those that need hardly any water...
lost of brick walkway, she added and sage stuff and etcs... and poppies, too, they just come up on their own, now... though she barely waters them...
it is very interesting and she's been doing this since the first drought worried came up, so many years back... :)
good luck with the 'keep you yard' natural...
let us hear how you fare, there...
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 24, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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Crunch noted: "Israel has a brand new desalination plant, Sorek, slated to produce (maybe, by now, already does produce) 165 million gallons per day, three times the size of the Carlsbad plant" Big F**ing deal, do those Jews have a $30 billion dollar bullet train? HAH! GOT YOU THERE.
Opps, $33 billion for the train. But Californians will only have to pony up $10 billion of that.
opps, $68-69 Billion. So sorry, missed my price projection up there. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-high-speed-rai_n_3005001.html
Crap, did it again: So sorry, $98 Billion for the train. Guess I mis-called that price tag. *$98 BILLION* now, my bad. Hey, it's only money. I'm sure there won't be any cost overruns or increase from here on via change orders and political mindscrew votes. About a $billion (one friggan billion so make it only a buck more than $999,999,999.00) will get you at least 50 million gallons of drinking water a day. Meh, what would you people do with about 5 billion gallons of drinking water? Probably just flush it down the toilet. Clean water is overrated.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Californias-Bullet-Train-to-Cost-985-Billion-What-Else-That-Can-Buy-133041823.html
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 24, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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*$98 BILLION* I'm sticking with that. for now
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 24, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
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DMT spoke thus: "Its how the system works, maaaaaan."
Yup. Both parties - dems and repubs, actually it extends to anyone elected, are beholden to monied interests to pay for the ads and campaigning expenses, and you generally don't get exposure to get elected unless you have the big bucks coming in from lobbyist and corporation types. So unless your name is Michael Bloomberg (bad example as he sucked up money too), that is the way the system works. They give it to you to get elected and you vote in their pet projects. Our brand new gov Kate Brown is a classic example. A cable bill comes up in the state congress. She's opposed to it. Comcast gives her campaign $8000 to change her mind and she does. Simple. Women that the police arrest as Prostitutes are honest and honorable in comparison. Truly.
From my viewpoint, this kind of thing is something I could support had it arose out of a strategic review of California transportation infrastructure by a group of experts. It seems more like the idea is just going to plopped down on top of a bunch of existing issues and be expected to cure those issues.
It won't (although it would help some, not much at all for the scratch it will suck up). Much like the Bush war on Iraq that made a lot of otherwise solid defense dollars disappear so it's not available where it should have gone had folks been strategically planning in advance, it will surely make the money that could be devoted to fixing a large bunch of California's transportation issues disappear.
The money will disappear. Not the problems. The part I find interesting is how convinced the Governor is that the money will show up. Some of California's major natural resource economic drivers are slowing and all but disappearing. Oil, Fishing, Logging. Big stuff. To tie this spiel into the drought thread, add Farming to that list - It goes on and on. Any high tech company that incubates into something of significance seems to start looking around for ways to offshore their money or to otherwise reduce their tax obligations. (ie: ala Apple). If you crank their taxes too high they can and will move. California's Prop 30 election in 2012 for $50 billion in extra taxes will make California the highest state tax in the nation at 13.3%. Overall Ca. is #2 (all personal taxes totaled) So you'll see an increase until folks wake up and those who can move do so. Then that will cause income to drop. Despite being #1 in highest income tax in the nation Californians public schools are now on the list of bottom 10 worst in the country next to such regular bottom feeding stalwarts as Alabama and Louisiana, so folks will be moving as well as capitol given how important schools can be to some.
Hmm, that kind of comes out as gloom and doom. Ca still has a lot going for it, so maybe that was too much. But that where it lies as I see it. Don't see where the money will come from for a $30 billion dollar train. Let alone when it triples or quadruples which is where it's going.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 24, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
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Lawns are part of the problem for sure...I've got 6yds of gravel being delivered tomorrow to xeriscape part of my yard.
But that's fairly small potatoes in CA. Or perhaps instead of small potatoes, I should have said small almonds and rice.
Agriculture uses a lot more water than residential in CA, and some of the uses are bordering on criminal in a climate like California's.
Get rid of the high use crops like almonds and rice and your situation improves immediately. Those can be grown elsewhere.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Mar 24, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
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Here's the stats for water use for typical Western states. I think California falls somewhere close to this:
Agricultural: 70-75%
Residential: 20%
Industrial (not including ag): 5-10%
So residential lawns take up around 10-15% of total water use typically. Significant enough.
The big money is in changing agricultural practices though - why grow rice in someplace dry like CA? Why use flood irrigation anywhere (the answer lies in water law and water rights but that is messy and complicated...)?
But yes, change to xeriscape everywhere in the west / southwest would be a big improvement.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 24, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
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Rice in California is grown where the water already is - and has been forever. More like swamps than desert. Like Sacramento. A hundred miles inland, and fifteen feet above sea level. I'll bet the soil doesn't drain worth a damn in rice country, either.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 24, 2015 - 08:34pm PT
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You gents are overlooking the potential of the Bullet Train in altering our weather pattern for the better.
Once that thing gets up to speed circling day in and day out between Bakersfield and Fresno it will create a surface vortex resulting in a stationary low pressure system centered directly over the Central Valley.
This massive low will then suck all of the moisture from the Pacific directly into the midstate flooding the disbelievers with more water than we could ever waste.
Jerry says we have to have faith.
In the meantime - I've taken to peeing on my azaleas.
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