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John M
climber
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Mar 10, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
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the report I read said that desalination plant in carlsbad will sell water at 1100 dollars an acre foot. San Diego currently buys water at 900+ dollars an acre foot. So the prices are getting closer.
I think areas like that need to do capital investments of combining home roof top solar with desalination plants. We spent tons of public money building things like dams. Some of that money was paid back in the form of selling water. So why not do the same thing with home solar systems. The public could fund it and be repaid by the people using the energy.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 10, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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hey there say... just saw some rain was heading in, so i sure hope it does some good, that we hope for... :)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 10, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
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in San Diego for a conference. Sure is a lot of green lawns around.
LADWP, on the other hand, is moving forward with massive projects to produce local water.
In 2016, the state will issue regulations on direct potable reuse. Translated, that's the recycling of contaminated (sewer) water to make the purest water obtainable, and add it into the drinking system. I still think they need to do a major educational campaign, but I guess we'll see.
By the way, I'll be speaking at the California Water Reuse Conference next week. Should be an opportunity to find out the latest on the state of the art, and get a much better handle on what is going on, State-wide.
I'd invite you all to attend, but they charge an absurd amount...it's mainly an industry event:
http://www.watereuse.org/conferences/california-annual/program#PLEN
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 11:47pm PT
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Yeah, you can reliably predict bad times ahead this year.
Cal Am Water, here on the central coast, has been ordered to build a desalination plant. They are completing the test well. It is a 700 foot slant well into the bay. They've been dragging their heels. CalAm is also dismantling the San Clemente Dam on the Carmel River. That should be great for the Salmon.
If the underground Salinas river aquifer goes dry then yer all gunna die. 80% of America's leafy greens to start.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 11, 2015 - 05:39am PT
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If all the illegals were reported to their native countries , Californian land barons couldn't afford to have their lawns mown ...the spiraling cost of lawn care would eliminate wasteful lawns and pesticides that run back into our oceans....Banning golf and golf courses would be another good place to conserve water....
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 11, 2015 - 06:22am PT
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Corroborating evidence of my observations about all the green in an area which "historically" gets 10 inches or rain a year (not everywhere, but on the coastal plane). However, some people in this area have had vision and have acted upon it. Enter Ray Stoyer in 1959. Yup.....1959.
Santee County Water District
The Santee County Water District was formed on October 2, 1956 under the County Water District Law of the State of California Water Code. The rapid expansion of the Santee community soon required installation of sewer disposal facilities, and a wastewater treatment plant was constructed. In 1959, discharge quality requirements became more stringent and the plant could not stand up to the new standards. Therefore, under the direction of Ray Stoyer, the District embarked on the unique project of recycling wastewater for irrigation and commercial purposes.
At the end of the treatment process became a chain of seven recycled water lakes. Boating and fishing were authorized in 1961 and Santee Lakes opened to the public for recreation. The recycled water project and Santee Lakes received worldwide attention and continues to attract visitors in the field of water reuse and reclamation.
I got a tour of this faclity as a college student in the 80's. Toilet to tap. My folks camp at the lakes every year when they come out to visit; it's very popular.
Grey water reuse is a no brainer, but it was illegal until recently. It ought to be built into every new construction project.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 11, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
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sk, Santee is NOT Toilet-to-tap, in which such water is ultrapurified to extreme levels, and directly piped into the drinking water system.
It remains illegal in Ca, although will be reviewed in a year.
Will do, DMT.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Mar 11, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
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dynamic equilibrium? yes, but we are at the extreme of my short lifetime, or perhaps what any of us will ever see…
the Sierra had double the normal snowpack in spring 2010… but since then,knott much.
winter 2013-2014 had a snowpack of 13% of normal in the Sierra, water tables were drastically down, and I walked places i never had before, lake isabella for example…
now we are looking at less as a real possibility this year… parched, not much ground water…
early backpacking, open passes,low water everywhere, and many dead trees i think will be the order of business this year.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Mar 11, 2015 - 11:30pm PT
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just move to washington, plenty of water up here,
and free pizza on the streets of OlyWA,
load up and then go die on rainier,
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 05:49am PT
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Ken M. Yes, it's not toilet to tap. While technically you are right, in many ways it is. People are allowed to splash around and play on the water, and eat fish caught from it. However, the reclaimed water has never been used as a potable water source for the reasons you stated. But this project long ago showed this possiblily could be a reality. As a former hydrogeologist who mostly worked on groundwater contamination projects, I found the treatment system is quite effecient and clever combining natural processes with technology. I doubt it will be used as a drinking water source any time soon, but Santee Lakes seemed ahead of it's time really. It's about time we considered sewage waste streams as a water source for irrigation at a minimum.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 12, 2015 - 06:30am PT
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Dying on Ranier, apart from the incovenience, would be extremely embarassing.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:43am PT
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Yea, the toilet to tap statement was very misleading. I think I just didn't finish the sentence up but I forgot what I was trying to say. Just as a note, they have been using the reclaimed water from the Santee Lakes facility for irrigation. It gets sold to a number of parks, schools, and golf courses. When I visited the facilities a long time ago, I don't believe they had any irrigation clients. Essentially they were just recharging the local groundwater basin with the excess.
Also, Ken M, I am also interested in a TR/any takaway from this conference you are attending.
Chris
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 12, 2015 - 07:51am PT
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Dying on Ranier, apart from the incovenience, would be extremely embarassing.
No kidding. It might not be the best beer, but it's not THAT bad.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Mar 12, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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skcreidc:
Desalination is not cost effective yet. But as the cost of water goes up it will become so. Down here in San Diego County, there's been plant under construction in Carlsbad. I believe it's supposed to go on line sometime in 2016. Supposedly, it will produce 50 million gallons of water per day and will provide 7% of the potable water needs for the San Diego region.
Israel has a brand new desalination plant, Sorek, slated to produce (maybe, by now, already does produce) 165 million gallons per day, three times the size of the Carlsbad plant:
They have worked hard to make it bigger, cheaper, more cost-effective. With the ongoing drought, only a matter of time before CA ramps up its desalination program.
http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/534996/megascale-desalination/
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 17, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
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Every time I get a nice carpet of 100% natural, drought-tolerant, no-water-required landscaping growing good here, The County Of San Bernardino issues me a "weed abatement notice", threating me with The County coming by to kill my landscaping - and charging me government rate for the work - if I don't kill it myself first.
Last year, The State passed a law preventing HOAs from fining residents who have natural, drought-tolerant landscaping on their property. I wrote the Assemblywoman who authored the law a letter asking her why she couldn't extend the same prohibitions to The County, you know, if the drought is so bad, and everything. I still haven't heard back.
I'm waiting for a nice, breezy day to return my "proof of compliance" to the weed abatement notice. My proof of compliance usually takes the form of an aerial photo, showing my property as the only one among my neighbors that's good-to-go.
My next-door-neighbor, whose grass lawn is the size of half a football field, and who waters his grass EVERY day. He doesn't know what a weed abatement notice even is. The County leaves him alone, while they're on MY ass every year.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Mar 17, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
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Our local ski hill closed yesterday for the season due to a lack of snow:
Mid March is typically the height of the snow pack. BTW it's ironic they're building desalination plants powered by fossil fuel, we're on a slippery slope.
Hey California, we've been called the land of fruits and nuts so why not add pricks to the list? One of my favorite gardens is the Huntington Cactus Garden, sure beats having a lawn. More interesting to look at, it attracts cool reptiles and birds, keeps the kids off, provides limited area for the dogs to sh*t and doesn't require any water yet the plants will thrive:
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 17, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
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Mr Milktoast writes:
"Hey chaz have you considered attending the next county board of supes meeting and demanding some action?"
That's a good idea. To make it happen, I'll have to venture into San Bernardino after dark, which is always exciting.
I did write my Supervisor a while back, and received the standardized happy horseshit letter thanking me for my interest of the civic process in return.
A few months later, that same Supe was arrested for corruption - and later still for Meth possession-abuse ( which explains a few things ). Last I heard, he was doing time in The Joint. Flew too close to the sun, I guess.
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missjr
Trad climber
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Mar 17, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 17, 2015 - 11:55pm PT
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Just back from the 2015 WateReuse conference. Very encouraging.
I was on a panel with the state regulator who issued the new rules today, Felicia Marcus. Amazing, brilliant person.
There is a LOT of amazing work being done on increasing the reliability and efficiency of technical processes involve with water, and decreasing the cost of current processes. There is a lot of interest in all this, and a lot of smart people are getting involved in finding solutions.
The real key, in my opinion, is for citizens like us to provide the political cover for political leaders to do the things that they already know needs to happen. It is rare for a politician to get ahead of their voters.
As Chas learned, one has to be very knowledgeable to make things happen. If you write to a politician who does not represent you, you will get no response, unless you are contributing money to them.
If we do not demand that our politicians support sustainable and advanced water processes, then we will not get them.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:52am PT
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hey there say, chaz... do you 'sculpt' it up a bit, you know... so they can't say it is 'running wild' weeds?...
can you set a few decorative rocks, etc, and things that would show it is
wrong for them to say your yard is 'disapproved' ?
my mom would love your yard, for the record, :)
our front yard, is unlike the grass lawn look, too, at my mom's house...
she does have some plants, but all those that need hardly any water...
lost of brick walkway, she added and sage stuff and etcs... and poppies, too, they just come up on their own, now... though she barely waters them...
it is very interesting and she's been doing this since the first drought worried came up, so many years back... :)
good luck with the 'keep you yard' natural...
let us hear how you fare, there...
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