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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Oct 17, 2011 - 02:33am PT
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I'm arguing with two guys basically defending personal income from the government as if there isn't enough taxes paid by Americans already to take care of every American's needs.
Basically, if I can get free healthcare and all the other perks here in Canada on what I pay in taxes without my government being in as much debt as the US, why can't I get it with the equal amount of taxes I pay in the US?
Why this argument about why the rich should be taxed more? You know with how your government spends money that you could tax all the money from the top 5% and it would pay for only days of the debt.
And you know that it won't stop the problem from developing in the first place.
But it will make your government bigger, which costs more to run.
Rok, they don't quit making themselves rich. They move it offshore or do something else which essentially means they quit paying taxes. The one thing they don't do if they are smart is move to Canada!
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 17, 2011 - 02:36am PT
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We voted for two wars. We need to pay for them. Sure, if we could stop doing that and reduce our military we could lower taxes, but that isn't happening in our society.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Oct 17, 2011 - 02:38am PT
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Isn't that happening in society with Occupy Wall Street or the Tea Party?
What ARE they about?
edit: wait, you voted for two wars? Which poll/election was that?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 17, 2011 - 02:40am PT
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Tooth... stop being a pisser. YOu know what I meant. We voted for Bush. Twice.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 17, 2011 - 02:49am PT
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When I said "we" rox, I meant America. I was speaking to someone living in Canada. And yes, I remember the problems with the system. We still allowed it when we didn't revolt. So in essence, we voted for him.
Now its time to take a break from this. Good night.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 17, 2011 - 08:40am PT
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Hawk wrote back on the 13th:
Tking had no response to the 1,000 plus jobs i posted in montana. yes it is terribly difficult these days but jobs are not handed out on the street corner.
Earlier hawk wrote if someone was unemployed or underpaid it was because they were not motivated...that is what I took exception to, not the fact that jobs are out there...I agree it's tough, that was my point. You made it sound as if the folks out there struggling are lazy...I don't believe that's true.
and since Blue asked,
A couple of things that will help:
pull out of the wars
invest in our country's infrastructure
end the Bush tax cuts
Sorry it took so long to respond...working full time as well as starting a business...kinda weird since I don't fall in the 'job creator' category...
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 17, 2011 - 09:04am PT
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^^^^Cherry picking the fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole...
just sayin
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Oct 17, 2011 - 09:55am PT
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66114.html#ixzz1b2aMmbbo
How about laying out a plan to balance the budget within 3 years? Including paying the president under 40k/yr?
A plan to strengthen the dollar and get out of debt without making promises that society can't keep without being taxed past the limit.
Here's someone who laid it out, and volunteered to get paid the median wage in the US to do it.
How do you differentiate between the rest of the republicans and obama when you compare the field to this guy?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:28am PT
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"Cherry picking the fringe in an attempt to discredit the whole..."
tk, do you apply that same explanation to those who condemned the tea party as fascist and racist?
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:49am PT
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Yeah, I do.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 11:21am PT
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and since Blue asked,
A couple of things that will help:
pull out of the wars
invest in our country's infrastructure
end the Bush tax cuts
Thanks, Tkings.
Since I'm a big fan of cutting spending, I cannot disagree with your sentiment on pulling out of wars. Maybe all but Afghanistan, there're just too many bad boyz there and in Pakistan. Maybe leave an airbase or 2. Shut down the ones in Italy and Germany.
Infrastructure? We just spent 800 billion on "shovel-ready jobs". The monet was essentially looted. Maybe if it wa done better, I could agree more.
Bush tax-cuts? Not that big of a deal. It would raise my taxes too. I'm not a fan of paying more while the gov't can't control itself.
I think most Americans want more oversight in Wall Street. Better regulation that is actually enforced. Bring back Glass/Stiegel. Maybe get the gov't out of Fannie/Freddie and the buisness of home-loans to unworthy and unqualified people.
EDIT: Oh, and good luck with your new biz. I hope it works out well.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 17, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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Conservative = self centered
If you have an open mind you can see how continued increasing income inequality will lead to negative consequences for America. I could spell it out but those that don't want to understand it still won't.
If you have an open mind you would see how a flat tax actually means the poorer someone is the greater the total percentage of their income is paid for all taxes. I could spell it out but those that don't want to understand it still won't.
It's not about coveting what someone else has, it's about creating the best environment for everyone who is willing to work to prosper.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
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The Occupy Vancouver group continue to camp in front of the art gallery - actually, it used to be the courthouse - and hopefully are having a nice time in the autumn sunshine, although it's a bit cool at night.
This is Co-op Week in B.C., so co-operatives and credit unions (financial co-ops) are in the news. A different and maybe better way to do things. http://www.vancouversun.com/business/solution+Occupy+Wall+Street+woes/5559462/story.html
Plus 2012 is International Year of the Co-operative.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
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Restructure the of role of politician as a civil servant, as opposed to means of personal enrichment and function cronyism.
How do you do this? Many of the jobs entail the control of power. Power is just as enticing as money.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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I think another rot on our system is that the more money you have, the better your chances of winning elected office.
This is why we suffer the current a-holes in office, the Senate, the House, and state-wide offices.
The best person doesn't win, the one with the most money does.
F*#ked up...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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Fatty, wouldn't you agree that McClintock would have helped Cali more than Arnold?
And Cain is a better choice than Romney?
Both of my guys are way better for everyone's interests than the 'establishment' or 'electable' person.
The Republican party is a disappointment to common conservatives and independants like myself.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:31pm PT
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Rather than a participatory democracy it has created representatives/specialists beholden to serve the interests of big money.
Yes, too many of our politicians are corrupt, but the people aren't that trustworthy either. We have voter initiatives in California, and they are a mess because people don't really study the issues, and they swallow the most appealing sound byte, which isn't always the truth.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
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I think another rot on our system is that the more money you have, the better your chances of winning elected office.
Something we can agree on. We should have public financing. Our current system means politicians need millions of dollars in donations to get elected. Then of course they have to make those people paying happy for the next election.
Both of my guys are way better for everyone's interests than the 'establishment' or 'electable' person. If by everyone you mean less than 1% of the people LOL.
McClintock and Cain however would be terrible. The would skew things further for the advantage of the very wealthy. McClintock is our rep now, which sucks, he encouraged people to go to town hall meetings and disrupt them. What an ahole. He is just like the Flea Baggers doing lame things like shitting on cop cars and disrupting traffic or business. Cain wanted to build a death fence to kill illegals, then said it was a joke when it clearly wasn't, no honest or honor. The only real candidates on the right at the Pauls. Not that I support them, but they are the only ones not full of sh#t.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 01:41pm PT
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I would call you an indepenadant hard Right Wing Conservative that Votes Republican O.k., true.
and that follows anything that the Right Wing Cult leaders say No, you just contradicted yourself.
so now you must stop the overtaking of America by Sharia Law and those Damn commies
Yeah, I'm working on it.
EDIT: Fet, you're wrong about McClintock. He's a true fiscal conservative. And he'd never encourage car-crapping. Let's be honest.
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