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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Well, survey done today. May be the lowest snowpack in >30 years.
No impact of storms in last 10 days. The snowpack is too warm.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Snowing nicely here. The San Juans have picked up 8 or 9 feet of fresh snow in the past ten days after a dry winter.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Yesterday, somewhere in Yosemite...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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One wonders how deep that snow is, and how long it will last?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Yet here in The I.E., they're building houses like crazy.
There's at least a half-dozen five-hundred-home developments being built right now in places like Wildomar and Banning.
And a shitload of smaller, forty-homes-on-ten-acres "KB Homes - Here Comes The Neighborhood" developments everywhere else.
Apparently, both The Government and people with money to invest aren't buying into the drought hysteria at all.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 10:32am PT
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I say screw the Keystone pipeline, put in a pipeline in from Boston to San Diego!!
That is sarcasm of course. Kind of like, lets build more golf courses in the desert (coastal scrub, ect.)! Another great use of a limited natural resource! You want to water that area over a year? Picture a lake covering that golf course 8 ft deep as a rough estimate of how much water will be used every year to keep it green. Higher evapotranspiration rates (a combination of evaporation and transiration) means higher watering rates to keep the grass green. We do not live in Ireland, thus green lawns are only viable maybe 4 or 5 months out of the year.
Apparently, both The Government and people with money to invest aren't buying into the drought hysteria at all.
OK, this made me spew my coffee all over the table.
1) There is no hysteria otherwise something would actually be getting done. No we are not far enough down the rabbit hole yet for hysteria. Actually, some forward motion is being accomplished; the cost of water is rising bringing desalination plant costs more in line with other sources. In Southern California, more than half the water use is outside. Half of that, about 25% of the total, is estimated to water lawns. There are still a lot of green lawns in San Diego. Thus no hysteria down here. (my garden is comprised of natives).
2) People. Money to be made? Hello? Short term, growth is a good thing for the gov and developers. So why would they stop. Doesn't mean it's sustainable. AND the well-off can move. So yes I agree with DMT, population should be capped somehow.
3) How can we cap growth? It will piss a lot of people off. But eminent domain has been used for the "common good" in the past. I was involved in a county wide backcountry housing density study in the 80's. Everyone involved was on personal groundwater supply. The end result was basing backcountry housing density on average rainfall amounts. Or the amount of rain needed to recharge their groundwater systems on a yearly basis. (they may have to reevaluate those numbers now). So, we could base population of rainfall. The sh#t would really hit the fan with that one.....
A tough problem to be sure. But as DMT says, it needs to be addressed and the sooner the better.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 10, 2015 - 10:43am PT
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In my area in SoCal, the government and water district will pay you to remove a lawn and install something low-water use (but not pavement).
In order to qualify, you must have a green lawn.
So the first step to using less water is to use tons of water to get a green lawn.
In my entire yard, I have one tree, a nice pine, maybe 60 years old, but it was just killed by pine beetles. Went from green to brown in about 1 month.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Mar 10, 2015 - 11:34am PT
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Ultimately you know they will build a pipeline from Canada to Colorado and on down thru Nevada, Arizona and California. In the end there won't be any other choice. At least spills won't cause any environmental damage.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Mar 10, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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Desalination Plants? (I probably spelled that wrong) I have heard they are not cost effective. Vandenburg Air Force Base on the central coast of California is a really big place. There are six different space launch complexes there and I think they only use one of them. All government land....like free land on the California Coast. Free land would cut the cost a bit. Billions for a bullet train? A multi billion dollar desalination plant would probably be the biggest of it's kind in the world. Could something like that be part of the solution?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
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Desalination is not cost effective yet. But as the cost of water goes up it will become so. Down here in San Diego County, there's been plant under construction in Carlsbad. I believe it's supposed to go on line sometime in 2016. Supposedly, it will produce 50 million gallons of water per day and will provide 7% of the potable water needs for the San Diego region. An even higher percentage if we get rid of the lawns and a few golf courses. How will it be payed for? Well, everyone down here will pay a small fee, even if their area does not use any of the water. This way the costs are spread out over many more people. Upside/downside? Upside is 50 million gallons of water per day. Downside is the waste stream which will consist of sea water with twice the salinity of normal sea water. And, it uses energy to produce this water (RO).
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John M
climber
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Mar 10, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
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the report I read said that desalination plant in carlsbad will sell water at 1100 dollars an acre foot. San Diego currently buys water at 900+ dollars an acre foot. So the prices are getting closer.
I think areas like that need to do capital investments of combining home roof top solar with desalination plants. We spent tons of public money building things like dams. Some of that money was paid back in the form of selling water. So why not do the same thing with home solar systems. The public could fund it and be repaid by the people using the energy.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 10, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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hey there say... just saw some rain was heading in, so i sure hope it does some good, that we hope for... :)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 10, 2015 - 09:53pm PT
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in San Diego for a conference. Sure is a lot of green lawns around.
LADWP, on the other hand, is moving forward with massive projects to produce local water.
In 2016, the state will issue regulations on direct potable reuse. Translated, that's the recycling of contaminated (sewer) water to make the purest water obtainable, and add it into the drinking system. I still think they need to do a major educational campaign, but I guess we'll see.
By the way, I'll be speaking at the California Water Reuse Conference next week. Should be an opportunity to find out the latest on the state of the art, and get a much better handle on what is going on, State-wide.
I'd invite you all to attend, but they charge an absurd amount...it's mainly an industry event:
http://www.watereuse.org/conferences/california-annual/program#PLEN
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Mar 10, 2015 - 11:47pm PT
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Yeah, you can reliably predict bad times ahead this year.
Cal Am Water, here on the central coast, has been ordered to build a desalination plant. They are completing the test well. It is a 700 foot slant well into the bay. They've been dragging their heels. CalAm is also dismantling the San Clemente Dam on the Carmel River. That should be great for the Salmon.
If the underground Salinas river aquifer goes dry then yer all gunna die. 80% of America's leafy greens to start.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 11, 2015 - 05:39am PT
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If all the illegals were reported to their native countries , Californian land barons couldn't afford to have their lawns mown ...the spiraling cost of lawn care would eliminate wasteful lawns and pesticides that run back into our oceans....Banning golf and golf courses would be another good place to conserve water....
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 11, 2015 - 06:22am PT
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Corroborating evidence of my observations about all the green in an area which "historically" gets 10 inches or rain a year (not everywhere, but on the coastal plane). However, some people in this area have had vision and have acted upon it. Enter Ray Stoyer in 1959. Yup.....1959.
Santee County Water District
The Santee County Water District was formed on October 2, 1956 under the County Water District Law of the State of California Water Code. The rapid expansion of the Santee community soon required installation of sewer disposal facilities, and a wastewater treatment plant was constructed. In 1959, discharge quality requirements became more stringent and the plant could not stand up to the new standards. Therefore, under the direction of Ray Stoyer, the District embarked on the unique project of recycling wastewater for irrigation and commercial purposes.
At the end of the treatment process became a chain of seven recycled water lakes. Boating and fishing were authorized in 1961 and Santee Lakes opened to the public for recreation. The recycled water project and Santee Lakes received worldwide attention and continues to attract visitors in the field of water reuse and reclamation.
I got a tour of this faclity as a college student in the 80's. Toilet to tap. My folks camp at the lakes every year when they come out to visit; it's very popular.
Grey water reuse is a no brainer, but it was illegal until recently. It ought to be built into every new construction project.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 11, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
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sk, Santee is NOT Toilet-to-tap, in which such water is ultrapurified to extreme levels, and directly piped into the drinking water system.
It remains illegal in Ca, although will be reviewed in a year.
Will do, DMT.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Mar 11, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
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dynamic equilibrium? yes, but we are at the extreme of my short lifetime, or perhaps what any of us will ever see…
the Sierra had double the normal snowpack in spring 2010… but since then,knott much.
winter 2013-2014 had a snowpack of 13% of normal in the Sierra, water tables were drastically down, and I walked places i never had before, lake isabella for example…
now we are looking at less as a real possibility this year… parched, not much ground water…
early backpacking, open passes,low water everywhere, and many dead trees i think will be the order of business this year.
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