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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Everything We Need
by John D. Morris, Ph.D.
“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.” (2 Peter 1:3)
In His wisdom and grace, God has seen to it that we have everything we need to produce “life and godliness.” “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust” (v. 4). This all-sufficient tool is, of course, the written Word of God, much of which came through the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ, who in turn claimed it came from God the Father: “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me” (John 17:8).
Furthermore, the written Word is the source of our faith and the only hope of salvation. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). This Word in which our faith is grounded is forever alive, “being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever” (1 Peter 1:23), and not to be altered, edited, or supplemented. “If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life” (Revelation 22:18-19).
Rather, we must live by the words of this book: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4).
To ensure that the “great and precious promises” regarding “life and godliness” are ours, we must believe, guard, and follow the teachings of this book. “Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 1:13). JDM
...+1!
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sacred heart of Christ
Sacred heart of Christ and the Holy Spirit
The Spleen meridian - located on both side of the body - is related to compassion in Chinese medicine. Here the blood of Jesus releases his compassion into the world.
Archetypes for the offering of the heart in service to love/compassion.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Thanks Mark! I love comparative symbolism. I used to use that poster of Hanuman (along with others) in my Asian Studies classes.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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How fun, Jan! I'm glad to see that appreciated. I've always found that archetypes can be such a powerful way to understand human nature.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Er, yeah, as long as they are not interpreted. Atsa big no-no. Then it's no longer valid symbolism.
Cheers.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Feb 10, 2017 - 02:06am PT
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You mean look at the image and then shut down any further neurological processing? As soon as the rods and cones of my eye fire I have interpreted the image.
There is interpretation as soon as there is any interface with my nervous system and my environment.
Sounds like too much attachment, MikeL. Relax, breath, let go, you're holding on too tightly.
The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever.
Ah, we have just read that and distinguished some kind of meaning, made an interpretation of those lines on the "page." Are they by default now invalid?
What is that word valid? Can you help me understand valid?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 10, 2017 - 07:51am PT
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Hi, Mark:
I'm only reporting what Jung and other depth psychologists have written. Perhaps they're wrong.
There is a supposed difference between a symbol and a sign in the literature. The sign is something that can be articulated, explained, told to another: a stop sign comes to mind. On the other hand, the meaning of a symbol--a crucifix, a dream, a feeling that comes up in a trance state of objectless meditation, a painting, an ancient religious artifact (like this one) , . . .
. . . these things can't be said.
The literature that I've read (you can also find the same in shamanism) says that one should not attempt to interpret symbols. Merely live with them: "stay with the image." You can go back and re-read that classic, "Care of the Soul" by Moore and see how often he makes that argument. If you want the real word on the subject (other than Jung), you can visit with Hillman's many works on the subject. For a type-A personality type (who tends to embrace closure), Hillman's writing can be downright aggravating because he refuses to tell people what to do. He repeats the mantra, "stay with the image." For Hillman everything human is image. (HIllman wanted to overturn / shift / revolutionize a psychology that he thought had become too scientific. See the compilation by Moore of Hillman's writing: "Blue Fire.")
Of course all of these people were friendly with what's been called "the shadow" of the unconscious . . . all those ugly things that we think are wrong, evil, bad, not pure about us. It is in those depths of the psyche that creativity harbors itself; it's where the soul resides.
We should start a thread on all the horrible and terrible things that make us the human beings that we seem to be.
Hillman regularly railed against any view of humanity that was presented only as sugar and spice. Religions most usually find themselves there.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is perhaps the classical European narrative on the topic. The Greeks and Romans had many myths that they thought exposed the depths of human being'ness. But I feel you are well-aware of those myths and what they purportedly suggest about ourselves.
I suppose myths don't fit into a proper toolbox for practicing science-types.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Feb 10, 2017 - 08:11am PT
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I get the model.
My point is that it is impossible to not process sensory data. It's not how our nervous system works.
And at the same time...
"The map is not the terrain."
~ Abraham Maslow
Here's a different tangent on symbol or archetype similar to Gnome's...
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 10, 2017 - 08:15am PT
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(It's my understanding that "staying with the image" is an outright rejection of the notion of "a model." It's that very issue which Hillman was railing against.)
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Feb 10, 2017 - 08:43am PT
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Hillman has still proposed a model, just as Lao Tzu has proposed a model. Any neurological processing of phenomenality into a derived meaning, whatever that is, is a model.
A newborn has a model, Socrates had a model, Jesus had a model, Harris has a model...
A correction...
Symbol...
Archetype...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Feb 13, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
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I was aware of Pence's opposition to evolution even before the election. Many of our elected and non-elected leaders share that belief.
In a way, that is fine. Believe whatever you want to believe. Belief will not change anything.
There is no doubt whatsoever that life on Earth changed through time. It took a long time for complexity to occur: several billion years. Since that time, in the Cambrian, we have a rich collection of rock outcrops which cover all of that time. Much older rocks are harder to find. Rocks get uplifted and eroded, they get buried by younger rocks, and in general, the older the rock, the harder it is to find a sample of. Not impossible, as they do outcrop in certain places, but harder.
Since the Cambrian, however, we have a pretty complete coverage of all dates. This does not mean that every species gets preserved, though. We can estimate that the fossil record is around 1% complete. Meaning that we have only seen about 1% of species that lived in the past. The numbers steadily grow as you go higher up the ladder to Genus, Family, Clade.
If you hang on to your old testament religion, you pretty much have to close your eyes on what has been found, though. Pretty much all families have been preserved, with an emphasis on those families whose members have hard parts, which skew the fossil record. It is much more difficult to find a flowering plant fossil than a dinosaur femur, despite there being far more flowers. We know of the flowering plants because they left a rich pollen and spore history. Many species have been identified by pollen alone. It isn't as useful as a complete plant fossil, but it gives us a good idea regarding the evolution of plants.
Life changed through time. There is no doubt about that, and anyone here who rejects that has some explaining to do. You can't just discount evolution off hand. You must have an answer which fits the data as well as evolution does. You must accept deep time. Many unrelated sciences have proved the great age of not only the Earth, but the Universe as well. It in no way fits Bishop Ussher's careful adding up of the ages of all figures in the old testament, which gave him an age of 4004 B.C. for the creation of everything.
None of it fits that. None. To believe in a 6000 year old Earth, you must put blinders on, and ignore the rather complete evidence not only from paleontology, geochronology, but cosmology as well. You must be a person who never reads a science story, lest it sway you from your faith.
To ignore evolution, you really mustn't read too much, lest you be confronted by its unambiguous facts, or a related issue, such as how many billions of years it took for the light from the most distant known galaxies to reach us.
I'm a big fan of the New Testament. I am not a big fan of the old Testament. Nor the Koran, the Book of Mormon, or other religious texts that I've at least perused. The New Testament is an incredibly moral book until you get to Revelations. The sayings attributed to Jesus are good moral lessons for nigh any human being. However, the Bible was not written until well after the death of Jesus, and in the absence of a personal secretary, every single word attributed to Jesus is unlikely to be true, in a precise sense, but people who go to Bible study sessions do hang their hats on every sentence.
I don't want to rain on anyone's beliefs, but the way that say, my boss, who is a religious geologist, gets around this is by accepting many of the stories in the old testament as allegories. A literal belief in Genesis runs headlong into a truly monumental amount of evidence to the contrary.
Mike Pence can believe in what he chooses. That is a strength of our country. That one has freedom of thought and belief, no matter what topic.
The only time I feel threatened by the Old Testament Christians is when they start legislating it. The idea that Werner should be told by his leaders that he is wrong, or a cutback in science funding because it bears bad news for old testament literalists.
The evidence is overwhelming. Actually, you will be hard pressed to find a fossil YOUNGER than 6,000 years. It takes time for the hard parts of an animal to fossilize, a process where the hard part is replaced by minerals.
I do this every single day now. I'm working in the state natural history museum, dating a 20,000 sample paleobotany collection. I know where and in what geologic formation it was found. From that formation name I formally date it.
Trillions of dollars have been spent in the study of sedimentary rocks by oil companies. Fossils are found in almost all of these rocks on a regular basis. I've spent thousands of hours looking at rice-sized drill cuttings through a microscope, and I regularly find marine fossils. Every hour of the day, over my 30 year career. Many, if not most of these species, no longer exists. If anyone cares to fly out to hang with me, I can take you to rich fossil sites where you can pick up, say, a rugose coral. They don't live today. They were once very common, but did not survive the end Permian extinction.
Sorry about this, but there is no way out unless you ignore the fossil record, dating of rocks (which has become pretty precise), cosmology, biology, botany, and physics. Pretty much every Physical science agrees on an old Earth, and the fossil record undoubtedly shows change through time, which is what evolution is. All it means is change. It doesn't mean complexity, although that did eventually happen after a very long period where life was simple and unicellular.
Go to a Natural History Museum. In the Museum I'm now at, the public sees only a glimpse of what lies within the collections. The majority of the building is devoted to housing the collections. I was able to visit Vertebrate Paleontology the other day, and there were stacks of cabinets which housed vertebrate fossils. In the Paleobotany Room where I'm now at, the room is huge, and chock full.
I would love to take Mike Pence on a tour of every collection, and then see what he has to say. One thing is certain: These extinct species did not die in a single great flood event. That never happened. Not because I say so, but because there is no evidence of a global flood event. It doesn't exist. Flooding events are fairly common in the fossil record, but they are local, and never covered an entire continent with liquid water.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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HFCS: Science education matters.
Thinking for yourself matters more.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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It's not rocket science...
Acts 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,
nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
for
“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your own poets have said,
“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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goB, Do you know the definitions of literal and figurative?
The depth and breadth of a liberal/catholic education is the foundation of focused and critical thinking. It is no replacement for creativity, but it is good, dry and hard wood for the fire.
"The intuitive mind is a gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant."
~ Albert Einstein
When we are uneducated we make better sheep.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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PROVIDENTIAL PRESERVATION
NEHEMIAH 9:6 “You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of
heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them;
and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.”
We have seen that God is actively sovereign over all that happens in His creation such
that whatever comes to pass comes about through His working all things according to the
counsel of His will (Eph. 1:11). In other words, the Lord has a decree that establishes what
takes place in time, and He executes this decree or plan in His works. The works through
which God executes His decree, according to the Westminster Shorter Catechism’s
summary of biblical, Reformation doctrine, are His works of creation and providence
(WSC 8). Having considered the Lord’s work of creation, we may now move on to our
study of His work of providence.
As we look to Scripture, we see that the divine work of providence
can be subdivided into divine preservation and divine governance (see WSC 11).
When we speak of God’s providential activity of preservation, we are referring to His
sustaining of the existence of all created things. One of the most signicant distinctions
between our Creator and His creation is that while He is self-existent, His creation is not.
God derives His very being a se—from Himself. He depends on nothing else for His
existence and, in fact, it is impossible for Him not to exist. He has the power of being in
Himself, and all else that exists does so only because He grants being or existence to it.
All of that is a more complicated philosophical way of saying that creation does not and
cannot exist on its own. Not only does it depend on God for the beginning of its
existence, but it depends on the Lord for its continuing existence. If God were to decide
anything in creation should not exist anymore, it would immediately vanish into
nothingness. Everything that exists in creation exists only because He preserves its very
being.
God’s providential preservation is taught in many places in Scripture. In today’s passage,
for example, Nehemiah confesses that the Lord preserves heaven and earth and
everything in them (Neh. 9:6). Hebrews 1:3 explains that God “upholds the universe by
the word of his [Son’s] power.” Contrary to the belief of many people, then, the universe is
not a self-sustaining system. It would not be here if there were no God to preserve it.
Moreover, none of us would be here either. We are radically dependent beings who live
and move and have our being only on account of the good pleasure of God. We owe
everything that we have and are to His sustenance. (Table Talk)
...God knows how to juggle with both hands tied behind His back! : )
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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A Time to Die
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
“To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time
to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is
planted.” (Ecclesiastes 3:1-2)
In the first eight verses of Ecclesiastes 3 there is a remarkable listing of 28 “times”
arranged in 14 pairs of opposites (e.g., “a time to be born and a time to die”). Every timed
event is planned by God and has a “purpose” (v. 1), and everything is “beautiful” in God’s
time for it (v. 11).
Although it is beyond our finite comprehension, it is still bound to be true that the infinite,
omnipotent God “worketh all things after the counsel of his own will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Even when in our time we may not understand how a particular event can be purposeful
or beautiful, we can have faith that if it occurs in God’s time for it, it is (Romans 8:28).
The time of our birth is, of course, not under our control, but we can certainly have a part
in determining the occurrence of all the other 13 “times,” even the time of death. With the
exception of those still living at the time of Christ’s return, each of us will eventually die.
God has appointed a time for each individual, and it is wrong for him or her to shorten
that time (by suicide or careless living, which can never be part of His will for any of us).
We should say with David, “My times are in thy hand” (Psalm 31:15), and seek to live in
ways pleasing to Him as long as He allows us to live. We should pray that, when our time
is finished, He will enable us to die in a manner that will be “beautiful in his time”
(Ecclesiastes 3:11).
Not one of us knows when that ordained “time to die” may be for us, so we must seek
daily to “walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time” (Colossians 4:5). HMM
...Turn, turn, turney, turn, turn!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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It has been confirmed that significant numbers of children’s remains lie in a mass grave adjacent to a former home for unmarried mothers run by the Bon Secours Sisters in Tuam, County Galway. This is exactly where local historian Catherine Corless, who was instrumental in bringing the mass grave to light, said they would be. A state-established commission of inquiry into mother and baby homes recently located the site in a structure that “appears to be related to the treatment/containment of sewage and/or waste water”, but which we are not supposed to call a septic tank.
The archbishop of Tuam, Michael Neary, says he is “deeply shocked and horrified”. Deeply. Because what could the church have known about the abuse of children in its instutions? When Irish taoiseach Enda Kenny was asked if he was similarly shocked, he answered: “Absolutely. To think you pass by the location on so many occasions over the years.” To think. Because what would Kenny, in Irish politics since the 70s, know about state-funded, church-perpetrated abuse of women and children? Even the commission of inquiry – already under critique by the UN – said in its official statement that it was “shocked by this discovery”.
If I am shocked, it is by the pretence of so much shock. When Corless discovered death certificates for 796 children at the home between 1925 and 1961 but burial records for only two, it was clear that hundreds of bodies existed somewhere. They did not, after all, ascend into heaven like the virgin mother. Corless then uncovered oral histories from reliable local witnesses, offering evidence of where those children’s remains could be found. So what did the church and state think had happened? That the nuns had buried the babies in a lovely wee graveyard somewhere, but just couldn’t remember where?
Or maybe the church and state are expressing shock that nuns in mid-20th century Ireland could have so little regard for the lives and deaths of children in their care. The Ryan report in 2009 documented the systematic sexual, physical and emotional abuse of children in church-run, state-funded institutions. It revealed that when confronted with evidence of child abuse, the church would transfer abusers to other institutions, where they could abuse other children. The Christian Brothers legally blocked the report from naming and shaming its members. Meanwhile, Cardinal Seán Brady – now known to have participated in the cover-up of abuse by paedophile priest Brendan Smyth – muttered about how ashamed he was.
It may be time to stop acting as though the moral bankruptcy and hypocrisy of the Catholic church are news to us
The same year, the Murphy report on the sexual abuse of children in the archdiocese of Dublin revealed that the Catholic church’s priorities in dealing with paedophilia were not child welfare, but rather secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of its reputation and the preservation of church assets. In 2013, the McAleese report documented the imprisonment of more than 10,000 women in church-run, state-funded laundries, where they worked in punitive industrial conditions without pay for the crime of being unmarried mothers.
So you will forgive me if I am sceptical of the professed shock of Ireland’s clergy, politicians and official inquiring bodies. We know too much about the Catholic church’s abuse of women and children to be shocked by Tuam. A mass grave full of the children of unmarried mothers is an embarrassing landmark when the state is still paying the church to run its schools and hospitals. Hundreds of dead babies are not an asset to those invested in the myth of an abortion-free Ireland; they inconveniently suggest that Catholic Ireland always had abortions, just very late-term ones, administered slowly by nuns after the children were already born.
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