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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Look, you lefties want to control ALL guns, which in terms of total deaths (particularly of the kiddies you so wring your hands about) have a negligible effect on total preventable death in this country (including of the kiddies).
Jesus H. Christ.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Think back to the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout.
Then.
Everybody at the potluck in Berdoo could have been armed with pistolas and knowing this, the killers would have just come in armed and suited up like Larry Phillips and Emil Matasareanu.
Just as many, if not more, dead.
Edited for clarity
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Except the Berdo perps weren't wearing body armor.
When dad got to the age when he decided to parcel out the arms, I was bequeathed with his last carry piece. A little Astra 22LR pistol.
He ran the Terrorist investigation division for the LA DA's office in the 70's and retired running the organized crime division.
Curt reply was no.
It was plenty of gun.
it was all shot placement.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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^They would have if it was seen to be necessary. You missed the point.
So in addition to just arming a bunch of amateurs with guns you're also going to train all of them to "shoot through" body armor.
Yep. That will definitely work.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
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Reagan almost died and so did Brady.
But at least we once again are being told what could have been used to kill more in San Berdu..
Dec 7, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
In the confined space of a conference room a 22 rimfire would have been just as or even more lethal.
223 rifle rounds make neat in and out holes. 22LR enter and bounce around in the body cavities tearing everything up.
Pretty phuking sick!
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jonnyrig
climber
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Very rarely do things become mass murder when someone shoots a bad guy early on. Thus, they dont make national headlines, and eveyone who,s anti-gun can logically argue that it may not have been a mass shooting at all. Until some good guy with a glock takes out a mass murderer with an ak and multiple victims its all just conjecture.
Meanwhile, the current trend is toward increasing fear and control. It sucks. But, i,d rather see some middle-of-the-road propositions vs outright bans. Given the choice, id vote for the lesser restriction every time if it isnt insane.
Given the candidates, i suspect billary is coming. Lets not come to the plate with an empty hand and an expectation of prevalence.
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philo
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
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Excuse me Jim but exactly how did you conclude I was expressing grief?
Are you always an ignorant twit or are you making a special effort just for me?
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jonnyrig
climber
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How's that registration thing up north? Working out well? I never did quite pay attention to it, so honestly...?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Are you always an ignorant twit or are you making a special effort just for me?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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I still say the swiss model is best. Compulsory gun training and ownership. And if you take an honest looks at the stats in the U.S. it is clear that the firearm homicide rate has declined as the rate of gun ownership rose.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 7, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
I still say the swiss model is best. Compulsory gun training and ownership.
Well, OK, but the Swiss model includes relief of about a third of those eligible from the requirement to keep and bear arms as part of their service.
Those who don't pass Psychological muster don't get a permit.
From Wikipedia:
About two-thirds of young Swiss men are found suitable for service,
You think this country is ready for that?
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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In fact, you KNOW (and it's been very publicly admitted) that all of the proposed gun-control measures would have had NO effect on the outcomes of the vast majority of these shootings, and that it's a crap-shoot as to whether there would have been any effect on the minority
Pure speculatiom. There is now way to know exactly what would have happened or not with a "proposed" law that has not been enacted.
Tgt, a 223 can do more carnage than a 22, depends on the makeup of the round.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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A third excluded is about right Lorenzo. In the u.s. that third corresponds nicely with the ratio of insane liberals.
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jonnyrig
climber
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^^^ That's funny.
Thanks Jim. All I'd really heard was unsubstantiated rumor.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Well, that excludes about a third insane Rambo wannabes.
We'll be a bit understaffed.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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No your way off on the wannabe quantity. Their numbers aren't significant, just the horror they wreak on the soft targets they choose.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Hmm. Interesting link on that Canadian Registry. Did I see something in there about a differentiation between pistols longer and shorter than 4.1 inches? Are you actually allowed to own, say, a revolver with a barrel longer than 4.1 inches?
Weird, y'all have long rifles, and seemingly less mass shootings than we do, despite debate over whether or not the registry has done any good. Must be a difference in culture.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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"Difference in culture". Yeah Jonny, they seem to have a better sense of humor up there.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Well, they do laugh at us a lot. But I kinda figured it was mutual.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Pure speculatiom. There is now way to know exactly what would have happened or not with a "proposed" law that has not been enacted.
Pure stupidity.
Apparently we humans have NO ability to recognize predict causal connections in advance of events. We must just stupidly wait to see how things turn out.
Actually, in REALITY, we're pretty good at figuring things out in advance. Like, we know this in advance:
1) A law that simply makes bears illegal will have ZERO effect upon the bear population. Shockingly, bears don't give a rat's tail-junction about what laws get passed.
2) Criminals intent on murder don't care AT ALL about mag-size-limit laws and have countless ways to circumvent such laws. So, such laws will have ZERO effect on criminals having large-cap magazines. And in NONE of these "high-cap" shootings were the mags even mostly depleted; the NUMBER of mags was far more significant, as the shooters frequently and rapidly dropped and replaced mags. But nobody proposes any "number of mags" laws, despite the fact that CAPACITY of mags has been shown to be irrelevant given ENOUGH mags.
3) Universal background checks WILL be circumvented, just as immigration laws are circumvented. We have ZERO evidence to suggest that black markets dry up in the face of such laws. Instead, we have AMPLE evidence to suggest that black markets are CREATED by such laws.
4) The Feds are INSANELY incompetent at processing information. So we KNOW that countless cases (as we have already seen just such cases) will slip through the cracks. Patch over cracks, and new cracks will appear. This will be whack-a-mole in which every mole that gets whacked will produce two more.
And the litany goes on and on.
A year after Colorado passed its most comprehensive slate of gun-control laws in its history, Governor Hickenlooper announced publicly and forthrightly that his signature on those laws was a mistake, that he had not been aware of the facts, that NONE of the new laws would have had the slightest effect in stopping ANY of the mass-shootings in Colorado, and that it seems highly unlikely that such laws would even have produced a reduction in casualties.
This is the Demoncratic Governor who was wooed and "convinced" by Bloomberg into selling out the state in opposition to the advice of law enforcement leaders without exception across the state. Instead, a year later, "Oops! BIG mistake. To do over again, I wouldn't sign those laws."
And, indeed. No surprise to those of us that CAN recognize obviously causally disconnected events (apparently you are not in that group), Colorado continues to have such shootings even AFTER this great slate of gun-control laws, two incidents this year.
You want more? I've got MUCH more. MANY gun-control proponent leaders across this nation ADMIT that "We really don't think these laws will have any measurable effect, but we have to start somewhere."
Yeah, in fact, we have NO evidence (except the pure speculation YOU mentioned) to think that there is any causal connection between all of the proposed laws and a reduction in gun-violence nor in the casualty lists once they happen.
But, you know, tally ho and all that. "We've gotta do SOMETHING," even if it's akin to making bears illegal.
Just keep makin' those pesky bears illegal, and eventually, since you "started somewhere," some incredibly unpredictable chain of events will result in some bear not being born that otherwise would be. And THAT very bear might have been the one to maul a group of boy scouts to death. So, "If there's some chance that some lives could be saved, then it's a 'moral outrage' if we don't TRY to DO SOMETHING!"
Oh, and while you're at it, you should impose that illegal-bear law ON law-abiding citizens.
Why? Well, because they ARE the only ones that are even going to care to try to abide by it, being law-abiding and all.
So, you could, I don't know... make it universally mandatory that every person sighting a bear must file a report to the federal government on Form 18377s-B (only 20 pages) about the details of the sighting. There will, of course, be NO follow-up on the part of federal agencies. But, at least we're DOING SOMETHING.
Dang! It just feels SO GOOD and SO righteous to be DOING SOMETHING.
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