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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Wes: And it ain't my personal experience. It is the experience of every person I have ever known
There is plenty of statistical data to support the idea that more regulation of guns will reduce gun homicides. Why be a moron and refer to your meaningless and nebulous personal anecdotal experience and that of your friends? I thought you were a science guy.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Think of a gun as safety equipment then and being alive as a position that requires certain safety equipment.
But it isn't. The cumulative years of "alive" in my sample population is 10's of thousands and the number of incidences where a gun was needed to protect it is ZERO.
What you are talking about is roping up at the trail head for a hike to Nevada Falls.
There is plenty of statistical data to support the idea that more regulation of guns will reduce gun homicides.
Yep. Many here are impervious to those kind of facts, so I was just playing along...
Should I list the number of times someone called the police and then was harmed by an intruder....
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Tens of thousands of people, even hundreds of thousands of people, will never be in a car accident that requires a seat belt. So the number of times they needed a seat belt to protect themselves is zero.
Should they not wear seatbelts?
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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And there is a big problem with seat belts being used to strangle others.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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If they don't want to, sure.
Seatbelts are not capable of falling into the wrong hands and killing dozens of people in a matter of minutes.
The biggest benefit of seatbelts is that my brother and bro-in-law don't have to scrape as many brains off the pavement or spend as much time rounding up body parts.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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As long as we are playing along, I will share another personal experience.
When I was in my mid twenties I lived in a house in a pretty bad neighborhood with two other guys and a woman. One night, in the wee hours of the morning really, there was a ruckus outside on the street in front of the house. Some guy was beating the sh#t out of a woman and she was screaming for help. All of us woke up and rolled out the door. I think I grabbed a broomless broom handle on the way out the door. Other people were also pouring onto the street.
The perp recognized he was going to have a public relations problem and so he stuffed his semi-conscious and bloodied victim into his car and screamed off. In other words he kidnapped her.
This all went down in about 60 seconds, maybe even less.
If I had a weapon on that night and the proper training, and the right opportunity, I would have taken that mother f**ker out.
But I didn't.
The police were called. They took a report. Apparently no one in the neighborhood recognized either the assailant or the victim, and we never saw them again.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Wes: Seatbelts are not capable of falling into the wrong hands and killing dozens of people in a matter of minutes.
I'm not saying seatbelts are like guns only that your citation of your personal experience and personal perceptions to make your point is foolish, especially for a science guy who is supposedly getting a PhD. Haven't they taught you anything about critical thinking yet?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Dropline, yeah, I know. Like I said, I was playing along. In my experience you can provide multiple scientific papers with clear sampling methods and clear statistically based conclusions, and people here dismiss them in favor of their personal experience... usually those who rant endlessly about how they should have unfettered access to killing tools because, well, because they say so and [insert whatever random paranoid thought pops into their head]. Clearly my personal experience is not relevant, but it reflects the national statistics... that most people will never need to use a gun.
If you disagree with my conclusion, provide stats to the contrary. I'm going climbing. peas
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Bruce: Well move over then. Us Canadians and Ausies will take over leading the Free world.
Ummmmmm, not likely. Our economy is more than ten times the size of yours and so is the foreign aid we provide. Does that mean the US is without problems? Not at all. We clearly have a gun violence problem. I'm not convinced that taking all the guns away from those who, as a matter of conscience, abide by the laws of the land will solve that problem though.
Does our gun violence problem mean we are not the leader of the free world? Hardly.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The role of guns as self-defense is not incompatible with the regulation of guns.
The role of guns to support rebellion probably is incompatible with the regulation of guns, however, there is no right-to-rebellion guaranteed by the Constitution.
Confusing these two issues causes this unreasonable, hardened political position to be taken.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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jstan
climber
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Three women die as gunman opens fire in Swiss village
Thu, Jan 3 2013
Gunmen in Pakistan shoot dead seven aid workers near capital
Tue, Jan 1 2013
Three New Jersey police officers shot; gunman reported dead
Fri, Dec 28 2012
New York gunman left note declaring plan to kill people
Tue, Dec 25 2012
At least four dead in Aurora shooting
By Keith Coffman
AURORA, Colo. | Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:26pm EST
(Reuters) - A gunman who barricaded himself inside a townhouse after killing three people in the home was shot to death by police on Saturday in Aurora, Colorado, the same Denver suburb where 12 people were slain in a movie house massacre last July, police said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/05/us-usa-shooting-colorado-idUSBRE90408W20130105
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dropline, I have been following this thread from the beginning
I don't recall any group of people or even one single person posting here who has stated they want legally purchased guns taken away from people.
Also, you mentioned some "politicos"
I don't recall any member of either house of congress who is advocating, talking about proposing legislation, that actually requires Americans to turn in all the guns they purchased legally.
What am I missing, Dropline?
WHO are the people on this thread, and who are the politicos, calling for "guns to be taken away from people"?
Everything I read is people talking about what possibly could be done to mitigate mass murder by large clip and/or full scale assault weapons "new" purchases having more restrictive controls, not "handguns" purchased legally.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Norton: I don't recall any group of people or even one single person posting here who has stated they want legally purchased guns taken away from people.
jghedge has written words to that effect regularly. He frequently cites Britain's gun control laws as a model for what we should adopt, and if I understand those laws correctly, they outlaw most forms of private gun ownership.
By politicos I mean not just politicians but also political pundits, like the NY Times editorial board responsible for the opinion piece I linked.
I don't mean to raise a straw man argument of regulation being either all or nothing. If banning weapons like the .223 and also high capacity magazines will at least reduce the number of mass shootings, I'm all in.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Maybe some states.
In CA, if I lose my rifle or handgun,
and for some reason the ATF comes knocking, looking for them, (Yeah right)
or my gun is found on a dead gang member, or dropped at a robbery,
they can trace the serial number back to me.
Then yes, I'd be in deep sh*t.
Firstly, I think that you are mistaken, but even if correct, there are probably forty-something other states you wouldn't be in any sh** at all.
In the absence of an informant who will testify, it is almost impossible to successfully prosecute a straw purchase. That girl in NY who bought the guns that killed those firefighters simply has to claim the killer stole them from her, or even that she just left them somewhere and forgot about them, and the burden is on the prosecutor to prove otherwise. This is why mandatory reporting of "lost" or stolen guns is needed, and at a federal level, otherwise it's pointless.
Write your congressman.
TE
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Norton, I hear you. Didn't mean to go there or make the slippery slope argument. Perhaps I misunderstood hedge. But as I'm not making the slippery slope argument I'm not going to take the time to review the entire thread looking for hedge's comments or those of others that may have called for the banning of all, or virtually all guns.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Norton: n addition, a person writing a personal opinion piece that got published in a newspaper such as your example is decidedly not a "politico"
Regarding my use of "politico", in addition to being an informal term for politician, often with a bad connotation, politico can also refer to "a person with strong political views". This verified in the OED, 2nd edition, condensed, page 1380.
Edited to add: The fuller description in the OED is "a political agent; a person with strong political views". So a politico need not be an elected politician but must be a "political agent" of some kind. For example, Jack Lew, Obama's chief of staff, could be referred to as a politico, even though he is not an elected politician. But you are right about talking heads not being politicos, as they are not political agents and have no political power, or agency, beyond their words. My bad.
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