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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yawn.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I think that apogee falls under #2.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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I see #2 as pointing to a gliding scale, where at one end you find this:
"In the tale, Christ comes back to earth in Seville at the time of the Inquisition. He performs a number of miracles (echoing miracles from the Gospels). The people recognize him and adore him, but he is arrested by Inquisition leaders and sentenced to be burnt to death the next day. The Grand Inquisitor visits him in his cell to tell him that the Church no longer needs him. The main portion of the text is devoted to the Inquisitor explaining to Jesus why his return would interfere with the mission of the Church.
The Inquisitor frames his denunciation of Jesus around the three questions Satan asked Jesus during the temptation of Christ in the desert. These three are the temptation to turn stones into bread, the temptation to cast Himself from the Temple and be saved by the angels, and the temptation to rule over all the kingdoms of the world. The Inquisitor states that Jesus rejected these three temptations in favor of freedom, but the Inquisitor thinks that Jesus has misjudged human nature. He does not believe that the vast majority of humanity can handle the freedom which Jesus has given them. The Inquisitor thus implies that Jesus, in giving humans freedom to choose, has excluded the majority of humanity from redemption and doomed it to suffer.
Despite declaring the Inquisitor to be an atheist, Ivan also has the Inquisitor saying that the Catholic Church follows "the wise spirit, the dread spirit of death and destruction," i.e. the Devil, Satan. He says "We are not with Thee, but with him, and that is our secret! For centuries have we abandoned Thee to follow him." For he, through compulsion, provided the tools to end all human suffering and for humanity to unite under the banner of the Church. The multitude then is guided through the Church by the few who are strong enough to take on the burden of freedom. The Inquisitor says that under him, all mankind will live and die happily in ignorance. Though he leads them only to "death and destruction," they will be happy along the way."
Moral: It's not an either or question, a black or white question, a hitler or not hitler question. America is not balancing well on this gliding scale - being too liberal when it comes to hand gun selling/buying and hand gun carrying.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Can I get a "Praise Jesus"?
No?
....
Nothin?
Saw a T-shirt the other day
"Jesus hated Bankers too"
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Who is the biggest tax collector in our nation's history?
I have a friend that works at the IRS...says the guy in the cube next to him is 450 lbs easily.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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"There are only two things better than a good gun; a Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere.
You ever had a good Swiss watch?"
Cherry Vallanz in Red River
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John M
climber
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I don't care if people own guns.. what concerns me are things like the Patriot Act. Where were people when that thing was passed? You say its no big deal because you wouldn't do anything illegal? How do you know that? Aren't many of you the ones who say they don't trust the government, yet you trust the government to get it right as to who is a terrorist without any oversight. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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That's the first thing that came to mind when I saw the title.
The Gun Control Cat Box.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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.17HMR is a freakin laser out to 100 yards. Exceptional accuracy out of my CZ. Never killed anything will it but fruit damage is exceptional.
The ammo cost difference isn't "that" big with .22LR when you compare the HMR vs. match quality stuff like the Eley Match/Lapua/Tenex which is what you'd need to buy to come even close to the accuracy.
For extreme long range stuff though the .22LR still rules IMO. For some reason the heavier 40g match .22LR seems much more consistent from 300-400 yards and less affected by slight wind. Although "consistent" at that range is of course relative.
HMR is great fun. Seriously consider it. I have yet to try the HMR2 but that ammo is even cheaper...
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jstan
climber
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(CNN) -- At least one gunman attacked worshippers at a Sikh temple in the Milwaukee suburb of Oak Creek, Wisconsin, on Sunday, leaving at least one dead and two wounded while police converged on the site.
Some people are believed to be trapped inside the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, and at least one gunman may still be inside, Alderman Dan Jakubczyk told CNN.
"As far as I know, it is still an active situation," Jakubczyk said.
Carolyn Bellin, a spokeswoman for Milwaukee's Froedtert Hospital, said one of two men brought there from the incident was in surgery early Sunday morning, while the other was in the surgical intensive care unit.
There was no immediate comment from police in Oak Creek, on the south side of Milwaukee. But at least one body was visible lying in the parking lot, and Kathy Moran, a nursing supervisor at Columbia St. Mary's hospital in Milwaukee, told CNN that early reports suggested between eight to 20 people had been wounded.
Gurcharan Grewal, president of the Sikh Religious Society of Wisconsin, told CNN that he has heard from multiple people that there were wounded people still inside the temple and that there may have been multiple perpetrators. Police have sealed off the entire area, he said.
Grewal spoke to CNN from another Sikh temple about 20 miles away, where he said police were on the scene was well.
"We are really vigilant. We are really concerned," he said.
The temple has a congregation of 250 to 400, according to its website.
"I just want to say this temple was built a number of years ago and there have never been any problems with this temple," Jakubczyk said. "They've been a plus to this city and to my district."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html#0_undefined,0_
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Therefore what?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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anyone have any experience with air rifles? there seem to be a bunch in .22 that are almost the same velocity as a .22LR?
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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Therefore what?
Bet you dollars to donuts some right wingnut thought they were a bunch of Muslins.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Sad people are injured/dead.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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At least seven people were killed, including one shooter, just after 10 a.m. Sunday at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, police said.
Four of the dead were inside the temple at 7512 S. Howell Ave. and three of the dead, including a shooter, were outside the temple.
A police SWAT team entered the building before noon and brought uninjured people out of the building, 7512 S. Howell Ave.
They started removing injured people from the temple's prayer room.
SWAT team members were still sweeping the building about 1 p.m. and an explosion was heard from the building at that time. It was unclear what the explosion was.
About six gunshots were heard at 2:30 p.m. in the area. The shots appeared to be coming from the temple.
The first officer on the scene Sunday morning encountered an active shooter and exchanged fire with him, according to Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt who briefed media on the scene.
The shooter went down and is believed to be dead, said Wentlandt. He said authorities had no evidence of a second shooter.
Wentlandt said the officer was hit multiple times, but is expected to survive. He said the officer was a 20-year veteran and "an extremely accomplished tactical officer." He was taken to Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa where he was in surgery just before 2 p.m.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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The first officer on the scene Sunday morning encountered an active shooter and exchanged fire with him, according to Greenfield Police Chief Bradley Wentlandt who briefed media on the scene.
The shooter went down and is believed to be dead, said Wentlandt. He said authorities had no evidence of a second shooter.
Wentlandt said the officer was hit multiple times, but is expected to survive. He said the officer was a 20-year veteran and "an extremely accomplished tactical officer." He was taken to Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa where he was in surgery just before 2 p.m.
Wow, that's proud! Lets hear it for the heroics and absolute professionalism of this officer. Probably ambushed as well or at very least engaged while the officer was still a bit off guard.
Bet you dollars to donuts some right wingnut thought they were a bunch of Muslins.
Betcha dollars to donuts every left wing liberal anti-gun subject watching CNN is hoping and assuming the same thing. True or not, I bet that's the story you're going to get painted by the bias, socialist media complex.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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I bet that's the story you're going to get painted by the bias, socialist media complex.
which media?
certainly not talk radio, which is heavily dominated by right wing hosts
and not the by far number one cable news network, FOX with some 3 million viewers night
which leaves what? ABC, NBC, and CBS: which Americans increasingly do NOT turn to for their news sources, which are more and more internet web
why don't we just wait and see what the authorities report about this guy?
He's dead so can't be interviewed
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sadly if "brown people" are the only dead, you won't see much mainstream US coverage.
Just the way it is.
Kinda like when a pretty blonde-blue-eyed little girl gets abducted...
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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I agree, talk radio leans a bit to the right if you exclude the the real right winger wackos like Rush. Fox is obviously a bias right wing network as well.
Most everything else is heavily left, especially the media sources you failed to mention like, CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, NY Times, Newsweek, Democratic Underground, NPR, BBC, even PBS.
Regardless, I agree, we'll all have to wait until more information comes out. Doesn't really matter why the guy did it, he's still just plain psycho.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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That's why you should always READ your news.
It's much easier to bullshit someone using television ( and radio, apparently ) than it is through the written word.
Why do you think all that 9/11 Truther bullshit is on video? Because if you read the written words, you'd immediately see it for what it is; Bullsh#t.
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