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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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"vultures circling"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 29, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
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Progress Can't Wait
If the proposed gondola represents 'progress' - a dubious proposition - it may well have to wait.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 03:24am PT
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hahahaha o jeez
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 11:30am PT
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I particularly liked the bullet about the Gov't standing behind the covenant. Since we finally dug up the history of the covenant, I find this very amusing indeed.
As usual, this stuff is a bit of a viscous circle. M.H. keeps writing Chief this and Chief that; then the SLRD doesn't give much credibility to the "no" side because many people still thought the gondola went up the Chief. Check out post #381 for instance.
For all the great work M.H. is doing, he has his moments when he is his own worst enemy. But he's still a great guy and he's putting in a big effort.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
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FOSC has taken pains to make clear that the gondola would go through the Park, but wouldn't be on the Chief itself. To the point of including the proponent's website URL in our messages etc, for those who want the details.
Like any public debate, not all may be completely clear on the details, and people sometimes believe what they want to believe. Some of the proponent's supporters, at the meeting in Britannia, being an example. But perhaps some FOSC supporters too, no doubt. That's democracy.
We did discuss whether we should call ourselves something other than Friends of the Squamish Chief, and decided not to. The proposal would have significant impacts on the Park and so the Chief, and our messaging about location etc has been clear.
(SLRD) Board members heard results of the public hearing in mid-April and were told that most attendees were supportive, while many opposed had misconceptions about the project — that the gondola would land on the Stawamus Chief, for example — or had frustration over the Province's process of reclassifying of provincial park land.
The SLRD Board members were mostly at the meeting in person, and hardly needed a report from anyone else. About 1/4 of those present were opposed to the gondola, the process, or both. Which was reasonable, considering that at that point we'd had two weeks to organize. If anyone there claimed that the gondola would be on the Chief itself, I didn't hear it. Certainly people said it would be in/through the Park, which is factual. Not a very good bit of journalism, I'm afraid.
377 signers of the petition as of this morning, 117 FaceBook friends. No doubt a few of them believe the gondola would be on or even to the top of the Chief - so what?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 30, 2012 - 12:16pm PT
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The proposal would have significant impacts on the Park and so the Chief,
What would be the impact on the Chief?
I understand the arguments about removal of land from a Park, about the potential for the development to fail economically, and about the government not following protocol. But the impact on the Chief of a tram from the gravel pit to the bench between Oleson Creek and Shannon Falls is not clear.
Unless maybe you mean the presence of the Gondola would siphon some of the crowds away from the Backside Trail.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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Remember the guy who wrote in moaning about climbing on the very southern end of the Bulletheads and having to see the tram? Well, at least there isn't a busy hwy down there or anything.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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David, you're familiar with the topography at the Chief already, and (I hope) are one of those who've made the effort to become informed about the proposal. There are already parking problems at the base of the Chief on summer weekends. How would the gondola and its bus and car traffic affect that? Would there be overflow parking there, or would it spill over into the Chief parking? How about access to the gondola base for southbound traffic? There's nothing there now.
Some proponents claim that the gondola would relieve crowding on the backside trails. It's not that it's a real issue, just a busy trail. Still, some of them claim that a trail would be built linking the upper station into the backside trails, and that would magically benefit the Chief. How would that help? Wouldn't it if anything increase pressure? The only thing that might not do so would be an entirely independent trail - and there isn't much room for one.
Then there's construction noise while it's built. Months of work at the top and bottom, weeks if not months installing the towers. All with noise and other impacts.
Despite some claims, the gondola and the upper station would be highly visible from the summits of the Chiefs. Glaringly so. And any noise from their operation.
Overall, the proposal, if it goes ahead and if it succeeds, will significantly increase pressure on two already busy parks. The Goat Ridge location wouldn't do so.
And let's not forget the BruceHamishDavid spotted toads...
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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I heard if u touch those type of toads you can hallucinate.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 30, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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And let's not forget the BruceHamishDavid spotted toads...
Can't say anything about Hamish and Bruce, but my toads have no spots. For the millionth time, I am not pro-gondola. Nor am I anti-gondola. I don't have a toad in this fight. But it does irk me to see pseudo-facts brought in to support an argument. Whether it be evil (but unspecified) impacts on the Chief, or a thousand-mile bike park based out of the top station.
The difference is that while Hamish freely acknowledges that the wondrous biking is a dream that may not be realized, and hasn't to my knowledge brought in any magical new bullets, you continue to hint at these non-specific evils in a way that implies they are real.
Yes, if the gondola is successful, there will be parking issues. But whether the gondola is successful or not, there will be parking issues. The town of Squamish wants to grow and prosper, and pretty much anything that brings on that growth and prosperity will "impact the Chief."
Speaking solely from my own self-interest, I would love to be able to ride the gondola up to that top station and gain easy access to new climbing and riding opportunities. Speaking as a non-local with a general concern for the environment, I would hope that the gondola proposal receives a thorough vetting before being approved or declined.
But the Chief of your youth and mine is gone. It doesn't exist any more.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
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OK - but let's not be shooting toads in a barrel. That would be unsporting, like shooting foxes or something.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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May 30, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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But the Chief of your youth and mine is gone. It doesn't exist any more.
Indeed. And mine; that's become clear to me in the last couple of years. I'm getting over it.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 04:45pm PT
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Now we're getting somewhere...
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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May 30, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
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It doesn't have to be gone, there just needs to be some spread...instead we get a gondola that uses the existing chief and shannon falls trail to access the top terminal. Its the killing blow to an already very popular and busy trail.
Besides that, as has been mentioned, the gondola doesnt go anywhere new. The furry creek road is still accesible and driveable for access to sky pilot and the hut and the road to the boulder blockade is 2wd for access to Habrich.
Oh well sounds like its a done deal and I am also getting over it...see you out there
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
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I understand the bottleneck scenerio on the Backside trail but if this thing works out to it's potential, I'd look for a new trail heading up to the top terminal. How about that next little gully/drainage to the south of the tram easement? Anybody around here ever hiked up toward that area? I know it looks awefully steep but perhaps a few dozen switchbacks and voila... a good make-work project for unemployed somethingorothers to generate an EI claim. I recall one of these such ventures on the Backside trail in the mid-nineties and that crew had some pretty impressive production.
Hey Anders......1300!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 30, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
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This is what council should be focused on for downtown squamish for encouraging folks to locate here for a global supply chain development hub
Ah yes, I can just see multi-million sq m warehouses, cargo terminals, and distribution centers springing up like mushrooms along the Squamish waterfront and beside the new international airport, as major players in the global supply chain abandon remote and underutilized locations like Shanghai, Singapore, LA, Hong Kong, and Amsterdam and rush to get in on the ground floor at Squamish.
Well, if nothing else, that'll take the focus off the gondola.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 30, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
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405 have signed the petition now: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/squamishchief/
To save the peanut gallery the trouble, no doubt they're all misled and deluded, know nothing at all, and shouldn't have the right to vote, or be out in public without an adult. (Sarcasm)
Yes, this stupid thread about a half-baked gondola proposal that should never have gotten serious consideration gets 1,300+ posts, and lots of 'real' climbing threads don't get nearly as many. Grrrr.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
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Anders, your efforts & commitment are far from being in vain. However I do think that a few of the goose eggs you probably have at this point from beating your head on the wall as well as future ones regarding this thread could be avoided by just focusing on your initial purpose for starting it. I am actually very impressed that it has taken over 1300 posts, many which could be interpreted as badgering, mean, or disrespectful to you personally for signs of wear to appear on your Mighty Charisma! I say kudos to you for standing up for what you believe in & keeping your cool. Thank you. There are many out there who understand the basis of this debate from your point of view and appreciate your selfless efforts, whether in full agreement with you or not.
The levels of speculation & redundancy that are spread throughout this thread are ridiculous, not to mention the sarcasm & silly jokes. But, as a collective I'd say that this debate has been productive & for the most part I think everyone who has followed along or participated has enjoyed themselves, largely because of those things I just listed. Many, including myself have learned much about Squamish, developments, & opened themselves to new ways of thinking about the proposal. Not to mention we have had the firsthand opportunity to see how legitimate information in situations such as this can be very difficult to come by regardless what side of the fence you are on, even if you're sitting directly on a picket. I hope the debate here continues until the final outcome is decided. Hell, if the gondy is built in the current location I plan on posting daily Tom Evans style reports on this thread showing pics of the cloud cover & empty gondola cabins from the base station :-)
I like GF's train of thought about slowing down ideas such as this & doing things properly. Insightful post. Thanks.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 10:09pm PT
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Yes Ryan, G.F. for mayor. He's got a vision.
So you're O.K. with underground parking and condos in amongst the tram base but you are anti-gondola? I might require a quick explanation of that stance.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 30, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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Damn, Hamish busted me in my own web of lies again!!!
Haha I didn't say I like his example, just his train of thought. Take it slow, do it right.
Don't just stick it in!!!!
Ps not anti gondola, just anti of this current location & proposal.
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