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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 03:57am PT
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By Shinichi Saoshiro and Mayumi Negishi Shinichi Saoshiro And Mayumi Negishi – 52 mins ago
TOKYO (Reuters) – Japanese engineers conceded on Friday that burying a crippled nuclear plant in sand and concrete may be the only way to prevent a catastrophic radiation release, the method used to seal huge leakages from Chernobyl in 1986.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 04:02am PT
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A female worker at the Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) plant wrote a blog post about the battle to keep the reactors from overheating, saying the brave workers at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power plant were risking their lives to keep the situation under control.
Michiko Otsuki removed the post on Thursday, writing that it was being used in a way she hadn't intended. But the Singaporean site the Straits Times translated the entire statement and posted it online. The post, which Otsuki uploaded to the social networking site Mixi, has already been quoted by the Guardian, the AFP, and other international news outlets.
"In the midst of the tsunami alarm (last Friday), at 3am in the night when we couldn't even see where we going, we carried on working to restore the reactors from where we were, right by the sea, with the realisation that this could be certain death," she wrote on Tuesday. "The machine that cools the reactor is just by the ocean, and it was wrecked by the tsunami. Everyone worked desperately to try and restore it. Fighting fatigue and empty stomachs, we dragged ourselves back to work. There are many who haven't gotten in touch with their family members, but are facing the present situation and working hard."
She apologized to residents who lived near the reactors, but also noted that workers at the facility were risking their lives to place the crisis under control. "Watching my co-workers putting their lives on the line without a second thought in this situation, I'm proud to be a member of Tepco, and a member of the team behind Fukushima No. 2 reactor," she wrote.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110317/us_yblog_thelookout/worker-at-japanese-nuclear-plant-were-putting-our-lives-on-the-line
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 18, 2011 - 04:43am PT
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however i think there are other forces in play beyond that and beyond geological and meteorological 'natural events'
You can't be serious...
The sheer unbridled arrogance of the idea humans could initiate or 'create' a 9.0 earthquake at a depth of 19.9 miles defies reason. I mean, seriously?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 04:53am PT
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i was privately told years ago by a black programs insider that they had figured out how to create these sorts of natural appearing events as depopulation measures. i was also told the general sequence of planned deployment. so far a lot of things are playing out just the way he indicated
there is a war going on here; and it is not about something the popular media is talking about
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read in my life....
Depopulation attempt right?.... so lets estimate up and say that 20,000 people have been killed. That is .00000285714286 percent of the worlds population.... its nothing, why even try?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 18, 2011 - 09:49am PT
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These are undoubtedly the same ninjas that planted the super-nano-thermite in the World Center and created jet plane holograms....
This has been a pretty good thread, let's not go off in to la-la land.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 09:57am PT
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Thanks Adam. It is neither cheap nor easy, but like your plant I know my facilities are significantly safer than commercial chemical plants with like hazards.
Edit:
Here is a picture of the plant...
[snip] I have friends who work at Hanford... Check with the QC / NDE guys, and ask them if they know Adam (rrrADAM) the climber from California, although I haven;t worked with many of them since the 90's, so they won't know I've moved to North carolina, and took a fulltime job at a nuke.
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ncrockclimber
climber
NC
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Mar 18, 2011 - 09:57am PT
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This has been a great thread with a lot of well thought analysis.
It seems like there has been a pause in the flow of new information regarding this situation. Any thoughts as to what the hell is going on over there?
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:03am PT
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rrrAdam,
great stuff, tfpu.
Are you in a position to say if nuclear tech with regard to safety esp has advanced much (like a magnitude or more) in the last 30 years? Or is all pretty much the same, boilerplate basics, whatever? Curious to your input.
What would you say is the one greatest advance made in the industry regarding safety in the last 30 years?
This is going to be hot political issue in the future - like never before - now that this has happened and now that fossil fuel prices are set to soar - the citizenry more than ever need to be informed on this. As I've said in this thread, the entire industry is CONSTANTLY looking to improve safety, and we have spent well over a billion $$$ at my plant alone since it's came online in the early 70's to enhance and improve safety. We are still in the process of doing so... Adding additional layers of safety and redundancy. As I posted yesterday, we just got a notice from INPO to look at certain things that Fuku has raised.
The newer designs are even safer than the older ones, as they have all the 'lessons learned' already built into them, where as ours are added on in addition to the original systems.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:06am PT
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i agree with John Moosie that Karma is involved
however i think there are other forces in play beyond that and beyond geological and meteorological 'natural events'
i was privately told years ago by a black programs insider that they had figured out how to create these sorts of natural appearing events as depopulation measures. i was also told the general sequence of planned deployment. so far a lot of things are playing out just the way he indicated
there is a war going on here; and it is not about something the popular media is talking about
don't make the mistake of assuming you know everything or that we are powerless to change the future
it isn't over until it's over
Tom,
That is sure to send a few STers over the cliff to commit "hare-kare" as the responses so far elude to. But I would like to talk about it and hear what you were told and what you know if at all possible.
Maybe we could start another thread considering such topic?
There is a war going on. I agree with you. It does seem the wrong immoral side of the war uses natural disasters as a tool of convenience to allow the worse possible outcome and to their dark advantage. The Shock Doctrine on steroids.
What did the Georgia Guidestones that were dedicated on 3-22-1980 say? What was number 1 on their dark wish list?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones
And just think, they were not bashful at all to admit it.
Not trying to hi-jack this thread. We should start another one . . .
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:10am PT
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Not trying to hi-jack this thread. We should start another one . . .
Please don't.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:16am PT
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Fukushima is providing all the informing I need to make a decision as to whether I want Nukes in the future.
. . .
for those of you that still think it is worth the risk I ask how you are going to convince your neighbors to put it in your back yard ? Many at the plant live VERY close to it, and raise there families there, including nuclear engineers and health physicists... I libe less than two miles from my plant. What does that tell you?
Seriously, think about it for a second, as those who have intimate knowledge of the plant and the health effects of radiation live close by, with their kids.
Do you seriously think we are all stupid, and people who don't REALLY know much about it 'know the real truth'?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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As I've said in this thread, the entire industry is CONSTANTLY looking to improve safety, and we have spent well over a billion $$$ at my plant alone...
Which just goes to show that Nuclear Energy isn't worth the cost and risk. Your plant has cost multiple billion dollars and taking care of the waste for thousands of years has it's own huge costs. Add to that the cost of any accident, which the Japanese will find adds billions more and there are better options.
If many billions were spent installing solar and wind everywhere, the economies of scale would kick in in huge ways and there would be no danger of untold catastrophes.
The infinite hubris of an industry that claims that meltdowns will only happen once in 10,000 plant years is unmasked by the proven falseness of it in reality. Storing the waste basically forever is just as much folly.
Nuclear energy relies on a constancy that doesn't exist on our planet and relies on human perfection that doesn't exist either. Time for power that won't become even more unmanageable as economies collapse and safety becomes more unaffordable.
For a person with their eyes open, there is almost no conceivable way these Japanese reactors are going to come to a happy ending that won't cost a few to a lot more lives and gadzillions of dollars and this is happening in a first world nation, not Soviet Union. (the excuse for Chernobyl by apologists)
Peace
Karl
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:29am PT
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certainly more correct then the experts
You are incorrect. Given the information that was available, the experts drew a more accurate conclusion. The fact that Klimmer guessed that the available info was wrong and drew conclusions that turned out to match the outcome based on what he guessed was actually happening doesn'tmake him more correct, just lucky :-)
I'm all about someone arriving at a conclusion that there's a problem, as long as that conclusion is based entirely on known info. Otherwise, it's just conjecture and should be labeled as such.
Much of this was quoted, then directly refuted, for all to see in the early days of the event.
Point, being, misleading or just plain wrong info actually does damage in situations like this, when people are struggling to understand.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:40am PT
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I don't know, D. I'm not a business man. I would assume that any profit includes interest on any outstanding loans.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 18, 2011 - 10:55am PT
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RrrADAM:
re: your question: Do you seriously think we are all stupid, and people who don't REALLY know much about it 'know the real truth'?
No! I appreciate all the helpful information, you and others with a nuclear background have posted.
However 60 + years of nuclear plants in the U.S. have shown that many earlier scientists and engineers were amazingly short-sighted.
I grew up as a triple-down-winder in S. Idaho. We had occasional fallout from bomb tests in S. Nevada, occasional fallout from slight mistakes at Hanford, and occasional fallout from the INL site only 90 miles east of where I lived.
My peers and I survived it all, and our cancer rates seem to be on par with the general population.
I am still appalled at the arrogance of the people who made, what now seem like incredibly stupid decisions about how to control and dispose of nuclear radiation, and radioactive byproducts.
So---likely not stupid decisions: but arrogant, mis-informed, and rushed expedient decisions were made.
The results in Idaho is: a radioactivity contaminated aquifer upstream of where many of us live.
I strongly suspect that history will show that stupid decisions are still being made in the nuclear industry.
It really is all about corporations making money, isn’t it?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 18, 2011 - 11:12am PT
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It is sad that the nuclear reactor problem has all but erradicated any thinking on the plight of the people who are struggling to survive the quake/tsunami.
NYTimes.com top story at time of this post is about Libya. 2ns is "Frantic Effort at Plant as Japan Raises Warning Level.
Nothing about the people who have been displaced and probably suffering loss of loved ones.
Re: The "black programmer" - I do think that would be better served in another thread. It is a topic I have interest in. BUT. Postings from the various sides of the debate will melt-down this thread. Truthfully, the reactor issue would have been better served as a separate thread at one point.
The aspect of Japan's humanity has been lost.
edit: found by clicking on a thumbnail image, after clicking into the "Raised Levels" story:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/12/world/asia/20110312_japan.html#28
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 18, 2011 - 11:18am PT
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Part of the American effort, by satellites and aircraft, is to identify the hot spots, something the Japanese have not been able to do in some cases.
Critical to that effort are the “pods” flown into Japan by the Air Force in the past day. Made for quick assessments of radiation emergencies, the Aerial Measuring System is an instrument system that fits on a helicopter or fixed-wing aircraft to sample air and survey the land below.
Getting the Japanese to accept the American detection equipment was a delicate diplomatic maneuver, which some Japanese officials originally resisted. But as it became clear that conditions at the plant were spinning out of control, and with Japanese officials admitting they had little hard evidence about whether there was water in the cooling pools or breaches in the reactor containment structures, they began to accept more help.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/asia/19japan.html?pagewanted=2&hp
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Mar 18, 2011 - 11:32am PT
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And he REPEATEDLY posted incorrect information, based on his limited and misunderstood knowledge of radiation, and the mechanisms involved in the spread of contamination.
Much of this was quoted, then directly refuted, for all to see in the early days of the event.
Point, being, misleading or just plain wrong info actually does damage in situations like this, when people are struggling to understand.
And not just regarding nuclear issues, either.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Mar 18, 2011 - 11:49am PT
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Agreed happie... There are more people still suffering now, than have or will suffer when the nuclear issues have played out, both in the near and far future.
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