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jeff_m
climber
somewhere fairly insignificant
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Jan 21, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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No JBC, I was referring to the inanity of these assertions:
These hammers should have cost us all $80.95, and no more, based on Joseph’s numbers.
No, 20 bucks isn’t a big deal. But the $5,000 (minimum) that was collected as a MANDATORY SOCIALIST TAX is no chump change. Fattrad, it seems that if anyone would bitch about a forced tax, it would be you. They can’t use your $19.05 to go to McDeath’s because that money has gone to the charity of THEIR choice.
Joseph, why did you get your lawyers involved?
This is NOT an “open source” project and this is NOT a “non-profit” project.
When the last round of crap was going down ("Where's my hammer?" "What do you mean you didn't produce all of them at one time?" "How dare you not ship my hammer in time for Christmas!" Blah, fu¢king, blah) Theron put out a call for help on the last build weekend. So, instead of sitting here with my thumb in my a*#, I gassed up the truck and drove a few hours to his shop to help, because I thought it was a really great project---and I understood how much sweat, blood and tears he and his brother, their wives, Joseph, Rob, Fred and everyone else were pouring into it. (Anyone want a refresher on the work? Go read the whole production thread and look at each step of the process. These are HAND-MADE hammers, meaning "one at a time" probably an hour each, for those not familiar with the concept.)
All this whiny and holier-than-thou "I told you so" is so fu¢king kindergarten it really shows how little understanding and how little respect some of you morons have for this enormous amount of commitment and a very remarkable achievement.
Yes, it's unfortunate that Gabe didn't get a hammer, but it's not Theron's fault that he chose not to read his email notification. His assumption that it was just a random update and choice to ignore it shows that perhaps getting a hammer wasn't a high priority.
I got off easy. Not counting the 12+ hours of my time, my one hammer cost roughly $175 (I donated a little extra to the charity "NOT OF MY CHOOSING.") I also delivered a couple of hammers, thus cheating the owner of his shipping cost and lining Theron's pockets even more----now I'm sure he'll be able to get that new Ferrari FF he had his eye on.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jan 21, 2011 - 08:03pm PT
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Socialist Tax?!? Funny. The project is rather socialist to start with, donated labor, done for the common good of the climbing community, etc.
Three cheers for a great project, socialism and all!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 21, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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I feel bad that GO may not get the hammer he had signed up for. Considering how this whole thing played out I'd say that it is an amazing accomplishment that only GO seems to have been left out.
I sent email notification "BCC:" to preserve your privacy, to 121 email addresses that I had gathered from you all... not everyone had responded to my request to send me an email confirming what you posted on SuperTopoForum, so that I would have an email to notify them, in my spread sheet I see that I did not have an email for Minerals... I did send GO an email notification on November 23, 2010 7:01:00 PM PST, when roughly one half of the list got sent... the other half got sent November 23, 2010 7:02:22 PM PST
There were 164 people who had expressed interest in having a hammer, so about 3/4 (75%) of all the those got an email notification. The 164 people expressed interest in a total of 198 hammers.
Since all this was rather voluntary I'm sort of amazed that it went off as well as it did. I had almost immediate response to my email from many of you who went to the vershke.com website and ordered...
...I totally understand not checking this particular email, or not following SuperTopoForum every second, and perhaps assuming that the sign up might have provided some priority over non-signed up orders. But in the end, since nothing was ventured by the sign up crew, nothing was gained, either. GO, among many others, had expressed a willingness to make a deposit for the hammer he wanted, but no deposit was requested, wisely so I think.
So my apologies to GO, I really am sorry that you didn't get a hammer.
I am still happy that this happened at all, my thanks to those that made it so...
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Jan 21, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
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Apparently for Minerals "socialism" = rolling one good deed (donation to a good cause) into another good deed (pulling together one of the best internet community inspired projects I've seen go down).
If that's socialism, count me in!
Nobody made anybody buy anything. Bitching about the terms of buying this hammer is as warped as any LEB logic deathspiral. Pull out of the dive before you hit the dirt Minerals.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 21, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
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Apparently FatTrad failed to notice the hammer.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jan 21, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
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The Hammer and Sickle design is iconic. It is as classic and recognizable as the Nike Swoosh or the Coke logo.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2011 - 11:07pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 21, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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Good one, Joseph!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2011 - 12:05am PT
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jan 22, 2011 - 12:11am PT
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Ugh...which implement did they silence poor Trotsky with?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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An ice axe, not a hammer.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jan 22, 2011 - 12:22am PT
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So the Bolsheviks DID have mercy!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jan 22, 2011 - 12:31am PT
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Sometimes fraternal struggles are the most nasty.
Anyway, Joseph's flag is prettier than Josef's.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jan 22, 2011 - 01:56am PT
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I feel bad that GO may not get the hammer he had signed up for. Considering how this whole thing played out I'd say that it is an amazing accomplishment that only GO seems to have been left out.
Agreed, Ed. Amazing. You tried to do the right thing but for some reason they chose to change it at the last minute.
GO, this is exactly the kind of response I expected from this crowd.
It's the standard "shoot the messenger" group psychology around here. A real compassionate bunch.
I knew this would happen and tried to make suggestions so as to avoid anyone getting left out. So I'm wrong for doing that?
Get real.
GO, I knew, someone that was on "the list", that actually had a life other than Supertopo, would get missed.
Because I take my own advice and saw this comming a mile away,
I bought a second hammer for just this situation.
If these jokers can't find you a hammer, let me know,
I will sell you one of mine. I only wanted one anyways.
BTW: Any of you that are under the illusion that "nobody made a dime" on this project,
need to actually look at the numbers Joseph posted.
I could make a list, but you guys are smart enough to figure it out.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jan 22, 2011 - 02:24am PT
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The post office made money.
The credit card company made money.
The foundry made money.
The handle company made money.
The airlines made money.
The car rental companies made money.
The pizza shop made money.
The electricity company made money.
The ISPs made money.
Supertopo probably made money since someone on the thread might have clicked on an ad link.
Hell, looks like everyone made money.
Except...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2011 - 02:54am PT
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Look, dude, that's about enough.
NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, is making a dime off of this. The only possible way to arrive at such a conclusion is to decide a one-time charitable shot in the arm for a struggling Sherpa climbing school is a matter of 'profit'. If that's the case, so be it. But Theron and I are way in the hole on the deal at this point, me to tune of $1275 bucks (plus the two $160 A5's Bill reminded me of [one taken apart for the project, the other donated to the Tarfest auction at Todd's to help Tarbuster and raise awareness of the project] so call it $1595), and Theron and his family put in endless hours into making this happen along with being in the hole I don't know how much quite yet. And f*#k the numbers, seriously, they weren't worth the hassle by a long shot just as Simon predicted.
Bottom line here - you got a frigging hammer - be happy.
And hey, there are no guarantees in life, and while Ed was nice enough to maintain a list, no one had to put up a dime over the course of that time. And we couldn't have asked them to anyway. Plus, that list was still about a hundred people short of what we were into so we had to make sure we moved the rest regardless in some manner. We didn't have a crystal ball to know what the result would be, and still didn't even when we started assembling. People on the list were asked by Ed multiple times to provide him with an email. Anyone who didn't, or who didn't respond with an order after receiving one (or even asking Simon to hold one until they could come up with the cash which we did), well, in the end that's a total bummer, but they had a reasonable shot.
We're still trying to sort out a mystery # or two one which may be at the metallurgist so a couple of folks who missed out MAY still get lucky, but overall this project has been a grand success and I've only heard one voice bitching about this entirely voluntary affair. Terms were known upfront by all before anyone paid a dime. Didn't like the terms? Bummer, then you shouldn't have ordered one. Still don't like the way it turned out? C'est la vie, dude, c'est la vie, and after I hit return it'll be the last time I even think about it.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jan 22, 2011 - 03:03am PT
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One note regarding pre-payment...
The credit card companies dictate that any money processed through their system must result in goods/services delivered within 30 days of processing the credit card. I made this very clear to Joseph and Theron before I stepped on-board to offer my services.
I am nothing, if not compassionate about helping out on efforts like this but my compassion ends when my own credit rating and business profile might be put on the line.
Enough.
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Disaster Master
Social climber
Born in So-Cal, left my soul in far Nor-Cal.
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Jan 22, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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Bottom line here - you got a frigging hammer - be happy.
Exactly.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jan 22, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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Ecstatic about my hammers!
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