Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Dec 28, 2016 - 11:33am PT
|
One might suppose most everyone needs something to hate, to rail against, to be against. (Some more than others.)
Rilke’s writing attempts to turn the parts of everyday life into that which is sacred—that which is visible into the invisible. He wrote: “Our task is to stamp this provisional, perishing earth into ourselves so deeply, so painfully and passionately, that its being may rise again ‘invisibly,’ in us.” Nature manifested in human lives, personalities flower as creative acts.
Genuine self love appears difficult to come by. A narcissist often appears hard and cruel, emotionally distant from others’ hearts and views, in order to preserve an image they have of themselves. It shows up as in all-too-obvious efforts and exaggerations, in false humility, and in craving attention. It’s a kind of sadism and masochism.
Rilke seems to have referenced the narcissist when he wrote:
"Through the reflection in the pool
Often swims before our eyes:
Know the image."
"Only in the dual realm
do voices become
eternal and mild."
Rilke might have been thinking that there is a need to be in touch with others and “otherness” to discover grounding and confidence that gives rise to true self-love, the love of self within a context of otherness.
I hear the trick of healing narcissism is not to heal it at all, but to listen to it. The narcissistic personality simply does not know how profound and interesting his or her nature truly is.
I’d say many things are like this about us psychologically.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
Dec 28, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
|
I love the Blake poem. It was skillfully woven into The Mentalist TV series, but lost its considerable impact in the series finale.
I hear the trick of healing narcissism is not to heal it at all, but to listen to it. The narcissistic personality simply does not know how profound and interesting his or her nature truly is
That's certainly an interesting thought. I'm curious if Zen attracts narcissistic personalities (as well as other types) and if the practice benefits them (or their acquaintances). I assume reaching clarity regarding one's "I" would diminish obvious narcissism. Is the epiphany more profound for these individuals? How successful is Zen in this regard?
Just curious.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Dec 28, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
|
Thank You both Bush & Crag Men!
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
Dec 28, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
|
*martyr syndrome
- when one is not persecuted for their faith
but has to publicly claim it anyway so as to continue to receive the internal thrill
the delicious feeling of getting sympathetic attention from others
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 10:48am PT
|
Immutable Bond
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them.
Psalm 139:16
Recommended Reading: Psalm 139
When a baby is desired, it is easy for the parents to go to great lengths preparing for the child’s arrival. After spending more than a decade investing in the life of their child, the transition to adulthood often sneaks up on parents.
Just as we pray for God’s wisdom in handling the tantrums of toddlers and the complexity of teenagers, we need His grace to let go. We will no longer know what they had for dinner or what time they came home last night, but we can trust that His bond with them is deeper than ours. He loved them before we knew of their existence or even existed ourselves.
Letting go does not mean a lack of connection. While our children will now have their own expectations and thoughts on how we interact, we can continue to encourage them through life’s challenges and celebrations. As we remember our own immutable bond with our Creator, we have the courage to trust Him with the people we value and love most.
We cannot all argue, but we can all pray; we cannot all be leaders, but we can be pleaders; we cannot all be mighty in rhetoric, but we can all be prevalent in prayer.
Charles H. Spurgeon
Eternal Security: Can We Be Sure?
1 John 5:1-13
Our loving heavenly Father wants us to know with certainty that we have eternal life through His Son Jesus Christ. What assurances do we have that we are permanently secure?
God’s love. One reason we can be sure of never-ending salvation is our heavenly Father’s unconditional love. At the cross, He demonstrated just how much we mean to Him: He sent His Son to die so that we might have eternal life (1 John 4:9-10).
Christ’s life and death. Because Jesus was without sin, He qualified to serve as our substitute and take our place on the cross. By dying for us, He paid for all our sins and finished the work necessary to secure our salvation (John 19:30).
Jesus’ promise. We have our Lord’s assurance that we will spend eternity with Him. He promised that we can never be separated from Him and that no one can snatch us from His hand (John 10:28). He has gone ahead to prepare a place for us and will return to bring us there (John 14:2-3).
The indwelling Holy Spirit. Another assurance of eternal security is the presence of God’s Spirit within each believer. The Holy Spirit acts as a seal, guaranteeing that we belong to the Lord and serving as a pledge of our future in heaven with Him (2 Cor. 1:21-22).
The Word of God is filled with His promises that those who have received Jesus Christ as Savior will spend eternity with Him. If you struggle with doubt, then meditate on Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into a biblical understanding of your salvation.
...God's got us, coming and going!
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
|
When I expressed curiosity about narssicism and meditation I did not mean to imply any connection with anyone on this thread. But Mike's comment was thought-provoking, and PSP's commentaries about "I" seem to point to a connection. Here is an excerpt from a paper published in 1986 that is pertinent. I'll read the article and summarize later.
"It has been noted that some of the those attracted to meditation have demonstrable narcissistic role pathology (Epstein & Lieff, 1981; Engler, 1983; 1984), but the role of meditation in transforming narcissistic pathology has not yet been explored. By focusing on two particular dynamic structures relevant to narcissism, the ego ideal and the ideal transforming ego, and charting how these psychic structures are affected by the meditative path, it is possible to begin to unravel the pathology complex relationship between meditation and narcissism."
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
|
*Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
*Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
|
"It has been noted that some of the those attracted to meditation have demonstrable narcissistic role pathology
Easy to predict this, from my point of view.
The ego has a function, a purpose. As Werner continues to tell us, one cannot be without one. An ego is very useful and a sign of evolutionary development. But as I've written about economics here and elsewhere, it has it's place--just not the whole place, please.
Spiritual materialism.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
|
This is thought-provoking...
War is obsolete... You are more likely to commit suicide than be killed in conflict..
Homo Deus
Yuval Harari, author of Sapiens
"Homo Deus explores the projects, dreams and nightmares that will shape the twenty-first century – from overcoming death to creating artificial life. It asks the fundamental questions: Where do we go from here? And how will we protect this fragile world from our own destructive powers? This is the next stage of evolution."
https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/1910701882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483067550&sr=8-1&keywords=homo+deus
"Homo Deus will shock you. It will entertain you. Above all, it will make you think in ways you had not thought before.” –Daniel Kahneman
Re: famine, plague, war
"We don’t need to pray to any god or saint to rescue us from them. We know quite well what needs to be done in order to prevent famine, plague and war – and we usually succeed in doing it."
"For the first time in history, more people die today from eating too much than from eating too little; more people die from old age than from infectious diseases; and more people commit suicide than are killed by soldiers, terrorists and criminals combined."
|
|
PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 08:37am PT
|
Thanks for the link, Corn Syrup.
I took a class (through Coursera) from Professor Yuval Harari. The course was based on his first book: Sapiens. One of the most entertaining and enlightening classes I have taken recently.
It reinforced my optimism in people and a belief that humanity is basically heading in a positive direction.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 08:43am PT
|
Wow...this superstition vs enlightenment thread just keeps on truckin along.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 10:56am PT
|
^^^^^^^
Er, . . . which is the superstition part and which is the enlightenment part? :-)
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 11:05am PT
|
^^^^^
LOL.
Touche'
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 11:19am PT
|
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
...?
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
|
Good to read, Phil.
....
What scientific term or concept ought to be more widely known?
I'm with S Pinker: the Second Law
http://graphics.wsj.com/image-grid/year-end-science/
"The biggest breakthrough of the scientific revolution was to nullify the intuition that the universe is saturated with purpose: that everything happens for a reason. In this primitive understanding, when bad things happen—accidents, disease, famine—someone or something must have wanted them to happen. This in turn impels people to find a defendant, demon, scapegoat, or witch to punish. Galileo and Newton replaced this cosmic morality play with a clockwork universe in which events are caused by conditions in the present, not goals for the future. The Second Law deepens that discovery: Not only does the universe not care about our desires, but in the natural course of events it will appear to thwart them, because there are so many more ways for things to go wrong than to go right. Houses burn down, ships sink, battles are lost for the want of a horseshoe nail." -Pinker
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
|
How about "critical thinking", Fructose?
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
|
Deductive, inductive, and abductive reasoning and their interplay in developing models and theories?
Empirical evidence?
The distinction between association and causation?
The distinction between theoretical and practical science?
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2016 - 11:27am PT
|
"In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink."
John 7:37
Patience had her perfect work in the Lord Jesus, and until the last day of the feast he pleaded with the Jews, even as on this last day of the year he pleads with us, and waits to be gracious to us. Admirable indeed is the longsuffering of the Saviour in bearing with some of us year after year, notwithstanding our provocations, rebellions, and resistance of his Holy Spirit. Wonder of wonders that we are still in the land of mercy!
Pity expressed herself most plainly, for Jesus cried, which implies not only the loudness of his voice, but the tenderness of his tones. He entreats us to be reconciled. "We pray you," says the Apostle, "as though God did beseech you by us." What earnest, pathetic terms are these! How deep must be the love which makes the Lord weep over sinners, and like a mother woo his children to his bosom! Surely at the call of such a cry our willing hearts will come.
Provision is made most plenteously; all is provided that man can need to quench his soul's thirst. To his conscience the atonement brings peace; to his understanding the gospel brings the richest instruction; to his heart the person of Jesus is the noblest object of affection; to the whole man the truth as it is in Jesus supplies the purest nutriment. Thirst is terrible, but Jesus can remove it. Though the soul were utterly famished, Jesus could restore it.
Proclamation is made most freely, that every thirsty one is welcome. No other distinction is made but that of thirst. Whether it be the thirst of avarice, ambition, pleasure, knowledge, or rest, he who suffers from it is invited. The thirst may be bad in itself, and be no sign of grace, but rather a mark of inordinate sin longing to be gratified with deeper draughts of lust; but it is not goodness in the creature which brings him the invitation, the Lord Jesus sends it freely, and without respect of persons.
Personality is declared most fully. The sinner must come to Jesus, not to works, ordinances, or doctrines, but to a personal Redeemer, who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree. The bleeding, dying, rising Saviour, is the only star of hope to a sinner. Oh for grace to come now and drink, ere the sun sets upon the year's last day!
No waiting or preparation is so much as hinted at. Drinking represents a reception for which no fitness is required. A fool, a thief, a harlot can drink; and so sinfulness of character is no bar to the invitation to believe in Jesus. We want no golden cup, no bejewelled chalice, in which to convey the water to the thirsty; the mouth of poverty is welcome to stoop down and quaff the flowing flood. Blistered, leprous, filthy lips may touch the stream of divine love; they cannot pollute it, but shall themselves be purified. Jesus is the fount of hope. Dear reader, hear the dear Redeemer's loving voice as he cries to each of us,
"IF ANY MAN THIRST,
LET HIM
COME UNTO ME
AND DRINK."
...This is the cup!
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 31, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
|
Oh, and add the distinction between literal and figurative...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!