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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Dec 26, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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I'm sure Jesus was a great guy. Great message etc..
But he didn't write anything down for others to have. And so we get this third hand account which was edit my marketing guys in 1070 and has since been mucked up by various translations.
Many Christians I have met say you have to interpret scripture.
Yeah, no. I want stuff that makes sense coming off the page.
Jesus came to me about 40 years ago as a voice in my mind and promised me good times. I passed and made my own good times. It has worked out well. If the Lord wants to smite me, I'm ready to face him. I've got some questions I want answers to. His day of reckonning will be before ME. Not the other way around. (And I'm pissed.)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 26, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
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Spider Savage: I want stuff that makes sense coming off the page.
Don’t read Kant.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 27, 2016 - 06:21am PT
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If the Lord wants to smite me, I'm ready to face him. I've got some questions I want answers to. His day of reckonning will be before ME. Not the other way around. (And I'm pissed.)
"Lucy, I thin you hab some 'splaining to do!"
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 27, 2016 - 09:22am PT
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How do like being told what to think, read, post, say, or discuss?
Try to read everything, then think for yourself and decide for yourself. Talk about what you want, try to maintain civility, to discuss without insults, proselytizing, or coercion.
Be open minded but unafraid to state an opinion, post, paste, write, poeticize, retch up your loveliest, liveliest internet bile or diarrhea. Not everyone or anyone might like it or agree with it. But that's a free discussion in a free society (parliamentary as it may actually be).
-bushman
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
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It's time to move on, no? The only one here who is an avid if not rabid fundamentalist Christian is go-B and one or two others.
The 22nd century, if civilization lasts this long, won't even know what Abrahamic religion is. It will be that passe, that irrelevant.
(Not to be confused with Abrahamic mythology, which of course has its place along with other mesopotamian systems. Good stories, timeless good lessons.)
Millenials, more than any previous generations, value updating their beliefs as modern understanding, evidence, reason and argument warrant.
If a few in every hundred insist on being holdbacks, luddites of a kind, let them. Life is short, time the rest of us moved on.
In a couple more years, arguing with a theist is going to be as silly as today arguing with an astrologer. Is it really worth your time?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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therefore
the bible is make believe
As is "Moby Dick," all of the work of Shakespeare, Dante, Joyce, Mann, Hemingway, and every other literary genius you can name. What you fail to recognize is the vast amount of ontologically "real" wisdom found in all that stuff you call "make believe."
If a few in every hundred insist on being holdbacks, luddites of a kind, let them. Life is short, time the rest of us moved on.
In a couple more years, arguing with a theist is going to be as silly as today arguing with an astrologer. Is it really worth your time?
Yeah, life is short and how you live it becomes evermore important. Look to the wisdom you can find in the religious traditions everywhere for the key to eudaimonia. Why were Kleobis and Biton the happiest of all men?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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If only you had a tenth to say to the religious fundamentalists of this world (who have caused so much havoc) as you do to the science types (who have broken away from ol time religion, particularly the Abrahamic versions), then it might have some greater effect?
But do you? Even a TENTH? Apparently, nada.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
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If only you had a tenth to say to the religious fundamentalists of this world (who have caused so much havoc) as you do to the science types (who have broken away from ol time religion, particularly the Abrahamic versions), then it might have some greater effect?
I don't blame science for the horrors of war and I don't blame religion for the nutcases using religion largely for political expedience. The source of human cruelty is tangled in a complexity more subtle and more pernicious than you imagine.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 27, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
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(1) I don't blame religion for the nutcases using religion largely for political expedience. (2) The source of human cruelty is tangled in a complexity more subtle and more pernicious than you imagine.
(1) largely for political expedience? (2) more pernicious than you can imagine...
How does anyone take you seriously anymore? crazier by the week. you're a hard-core religious sympathizer who truly doesn't know what makes a fundamentalist literalist tick or just how many there are in percentage whether in America or the world at large - that imo makes you an obstructionist to wider progress as much as anything. You cover for the Abrahamic fundamentalist literalist; that appears to be your main role here. Sad.
Ask go-B or Cragman or Klimmer ("nutcases"?) if it is "political expedience" that is a motivation let alone thee motivation behind their religiosity. It is you who doesn't understand things as much as you think you do.
Speak to the "nutcases" for a change. Yes, that is what you could do. Surely you follow the news to some extent, so you must know the modern world is spending tens of billions of dollars yearly fighting their backward (theological) fundamentalisms.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 27, 2016 - 11:27pm PT
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How does anyone take you seriously anymore? crazier by the week. you're a hard-core religious sympathizer who truly doesn't know what makes a fundamentalist literalist tick or just how many there are in percentage whether in America or the world at large -
Apologies, but unlike you I haven't had the opportunity to experience any kind of fundamentalism first hand.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 28, 2016 - 07:38am PT
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HFCS: . . . go-B or Cragman or Klimmer ("nutcases"?) . . . .
You could dial this back a little.
If belief systems are the basis for being a so-called “nutcase,” then all of us are nutcases since we all subscribe to various sets of belief systems.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 07:57am PT
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the annihilation of religions...
That's nonsense. If by now you don't know what fundamentalism / literalism is I'm not going to explain it to you.
Annihilation? Oh please.
And if you can't distinguish between a more liberal Christianity and fundamentalist Christianity whose problem is that?
It's like every third day you go off the rails.
and you're lucky to get this response, your stupid post doesn't deserve any.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:05am PT
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re: "nutcases" do you guys ever do anything but skim posts and think a little more deeply than an inch.
another stupid post
"nutcases" was paul r's term, not mine, I quoted it.
Look closely, you'll see a question mark in there, that was mine.
So Trumpian.
...
Apologies, but unlike you I haven't had the opportunity to experience any kind of fundamentalism first hand. -paul r
Then maybe you could at least study it so you could improve your appreciation of the many distinctions involved? For starters, fundamentalists of any version of the Abrahamic religion really really really truly truly truly verily verily verily believe the stories told in their scriptures. This literalism covers a lot more than just creationism too (the singular item BASE here likes to return to again and again).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPyd2g7JfY
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:31am PT
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"If belief systems are the basis for being a so-called “nutcase,” then all of us are nutcases since we all subscribe to various sets of belief systems." -mikel
oh, you pitiful thing. It appears you've never learned to distinguish between (1) religious belief systems and (2) nonreligious belief systems.
oh, you pitiful thing. It appears you've never learned to distinguish between (a) evidence-based belief systems and (b) non-evidence-based belief systems (hmm, what comes to mind here?)
Food for thought: some belief systems are a wee-bit more accurate, valid and useful than others. This recognition is a good first step to a higher awareness in this area. Give it a try.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:35am PT
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Yet another baseless worthless post
beta: spend the day learning to appreciate the distinction between (a) moving beyond a religion (a result of edu, eg, modernization, upgrading) and (b) "annihilating" (dmt) religions
you could be less reckless with words
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Such passion here
You guys go so frothy on each other
Like so many on the forum
Always out to gut the first fish on the line
But I've had a few frothy days here too
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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It's a jr high, post-truth thread, Bushman.
I should know better than to post on it.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:45am PT
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Here's some truth, from my POV...
I've had way too much religion in my youth. As a preacher's kid with dozens of east Texas relatives whose heritages and values were steeped in fundamentalism or evangelism, racism was common, as was corporal punishment, spousal and/or child abuse, and hypocrisy. So it's easy for me to criticize religion. The difficulty is to abstain from criticism or to do so with more tact. I'm still working on that.
Fundamentally Unfounded
From the mouth of a baby
Once threatened with Hades
Forewarned of damnation
Hellfire and tarnation
Fundamentalism? Oh please
I've been down on my knees
Beaten raw beyond welts
With the switch or the belt
For the pious were in numbers
Always there as I slumbered
And with each new infraction
I might draw them to action
With the slightest of sins
Would the beatings begin
But if I behaved
Then my soul might be saved
Plied by affectations
Of immortal expectations
My defects were made clear
As I grew up in fear
Undue questions were thwarted
For my soul was to forfeit
The assumption ever seeded
That redemption was needed
But this plan towards belief
Was a path laid with grief
As with each day I found
That such logic was unsound
I was punished for laziness
Impure thoughts or braininess
And the plethora of directions
Only spurred in me more questions
Their hypocrisy was common
I was not but to examine
God's benevolent construction
Lest I risk my destruction
That our minds were too small
To encompass it all
But such axioms were ambivalent
And with time became evident
As the modern world revealed
Those with vision do not heel
They aren't cowed but speak out
Against the tyranny of the devout
To the ears of my descendants
Who might fear the omnipotent
Who'd be threatened or forewarned
To be judged or be scorned
Fundamentalism? Oh please
I've been beaten to my knees
Unconvinced of the sanctity
Of such coercive insanity
So to the acumen of parents
Please protect your innocents
From the doctrine of religion
Or such misdirected fiction
-bushman
12/28/2016
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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Love it Bushman! That should be mandatory reading in the "Big Thicket."
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