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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 23, 2016 - 10:53am PT
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"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!"
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 23, 2016 - 11:30am PT
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...Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 23, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
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I don't see anyone "dissing" science. I do see many who claim to be on the side of science failing to understand the difference between simple fact and wisdom.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Dec 23, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
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The point of the Abraham story is how far an individual will sacrifice for faith, family and community
Oh my God! So that's what it's all about! I've wondered about that for years. Thanx, Sycorax.
;>)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 23, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
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A modern parallel...look at what Manson had his clan do as a test of their faith, family and community.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 23, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
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FYI...
The Offering of Isaac
Genesis22:1 Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 2 He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.” 3 So Abraham rose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and Isaac his son; and he split wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him. 4 On the third day Abraham raised his eyes and saw the place from a distance. 5 Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.” 6 Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son, and he took in his hand the fire and the knife. So the two of them walked on together. 7 Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8 Abraham said, “God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” So the two of them walked on together.
9 Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 12 He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” 13 Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son. 14 Abraham called the name of that place The Lord Will Provide, as it is said to this day, “In the mount of the Lord it will be provided.”
15 Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven, 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” 19 So Abraham returned to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham lived at Beersheba.
Romans 4:1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead.20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
...By faith Abraham trusted and obeyed God!
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 23, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
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Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 23, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
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A modern parallel...look at what Manson had his clan do as a test of their faith, family and community.
Human beings do nasty things by nature it is their evolutionary heritage to do crappy things to other people, it has little to do with faith and everything to do with injured merit, desire, tribalism and any other number of human "needs." Disparaging faith because of Manson's sins seems senseless on the face of it.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 24, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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The Babe in Bethlehem
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)
This is a very remarkable prophecy, explicitly predicting that the future King of Israel would be born in the little village of Bethlehem some 700 years before He finally came. Then, to assure its fulfillment, the great Emperor Augustus had to decree a comprehensive census, compelling Joseph to take Mary with him to Bethlehem for her child to be born.
That the prophecy involves an actual birth is clear, not only from the phrase “come forth,” but also from the succeeding verse that warns God will “give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth” (v. 3). The preceding verse had also predicted that “they shall smite [this coming ruler] the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek” (v. 1), speaking of His initial rejection and execution.
But the prophecy not only foresees His birth in Bethlehem, His repudiation by His own people, and His eventual installation as King over all Israel (not merely Judah), but also that this same remarkable person was none other than God Himself! His “goings forth” had been “from everlasting.” That is, He is eternally proceeding forth from His Father. He did not become God’s Son when He was born in Bethlehem; He has been coming forth eternally.
There is still another truth implied in the Hebrew word for “goings forth.” It is also used for such things as the flowing of water from a fountain or the radiations from the sun. Thus, the never-ending flowing forth of power from God through the Son is nothing less than the sustaining energy for the whole creation, as He is “upholding all things by the word of his power” (Hebrews 1:3). And this was the Babe in Bethlehem! HMM
http://www.icr.org/article/9676/
...God of very God was a babe in the morning!
Colossians 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form
Think about this as a Christian does, the maker of heaven and earth pulled out all the stops with man to dwell! We are His and He is ours, what a gift!
A Merry Christmas Eve to you all!
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Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
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Dec 24, 2016 - 10:36am PT
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Excuse me replying to something a couple pages back, but I'm not able to get online every day.
Reilly says:
I guess yer not up on Gödel or modal logic. "In 2014, Christoph Benzmüller and Bruno Woltzenlogel-Paleo gave a computer-checked proof of modal collapse.[14]:97 "
FYI, Kant was in his grave 137 years before Gödel wrote his proof.
No I'm definately not up on Gödel or modal logic. But I can plainly see why his ontological proof fails. The axioms are self-contradictory and the argument is either hypothetical or circular.
Axiom 3: The property of being God-like is positive
If this is meant only as a "definition" of God, then the proof is purely semantic, and the conclusion amounts to saying "in a hypothetical world where God exists and His properties are positive, God must exist."
If the axiom is intended to describe reality, then it needs to be supported by empirical evidence. How do we know that being God-like is "positive"? How can we go about assigning properties to a creature who's existence we aren't even sure of? And then Gödel sets to refuting himself by establishing that:
Axiom 5: Necessary existence is positive
Therefore, not all of God's properties can be "positive" if he doesn't exist, and so now you see how the argument wraps itself in a neat little circle. Proving God's existence is essential to proving axiom 3. The premise assumes the conclusion.
And I still don't see what help supercomputers would be in this matter. That Kant debunked the ontological argument one and a half centuries before Gödel wrote his proof is, I suppose, all the more embarrassing for Gödel.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 24, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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I see happy people!
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Dec 24, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
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Gödel's axioms are all suspect. But starting with them he argues the existence of God - a mere inference,not in any sense the truth, based on very shaky premises. We get into arguments and discussions around here based on vague and/or questionable definitions, like being, and assumptions, like the moon isn't there when you're not looking at it.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Dec 24, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
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Go-b: I see happy people!
Reminds me of what Haley Joel Osment’s character said in “Sixth Sense,” only different.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 25, 2016 - 12:12am PT
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Happy Earthday Jesus t 🎄
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Dec 25, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 26, 2016 - 10:49am PT
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On this day long ago a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world.
Happy Birthday Isaac Newton, b. 12/25/1642
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Dec 26, 2016 - 11:31am PT
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Possibly the greatest inventor and enabler of them all:
Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg (/joʊˌhɑːnᵻs ˈɡuːtənbɛrɡ/ yoh-HAH-nəs GOO-tən-behrɡ; c. 1398 – February 3, 1468) was a German blacksmith, goldsmith, printer, and publisher who introduced printing to Europe. His introduction of mechanical movable type printing to Europe started the Printing Revolution and is widely regarded as the most important invention of the second millennium, the seminal event which ushered in the modern period of human history. It played a key role in the development of the Renaissance, Reformation, the Age of Enlightenment, and the scientific revolution and laid the material basis for the modern knowledge-based economy and the spread of learning to the masses.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 26, 2016 - 11:52am PT
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Galatians 6:7-10
The Ruin of Rebellion
Rebelling against the Lord is costly. The divine law of consequences is that people reap what they sow, more than they sow, and later than they sow. And the principle is unchangeable whether you believe in God or not.
A prevailing attitude of our modern culture is that rules prevent people from having a good time. That is certainly not the Lord’s intention. In fact, He offers us true freedom through a relationship with Him. Our loving heavenly Father desires to keep His children growing in their faith and safe from the devil’s temptations and worldly influences. He does that by limiting our actions and commanding that we follow certain laws and principles, which He has designed for our good. There is no greater pleasure or source of contentment than serving Him.
Rebellion, on the other hand, is a form of slavery. By defying the Lord’s authority in some area of our life, we are allowing the enemy to shackle us. We may not initially feel the constraint of his trap, but keep in mind that divine law of consequences. Eventually, we will be heavily burdened by our sin. Whether the penalty ends up being carried in the body, mind, heart, or spirit, we will find ourselves distracted from wholly serving the Lord (Matt. 6:24).
God takes disobedience seriously because the consequences are so grave. As the Sovereign of the universe and our loving Father, He has only our best in mind. So rebelling against Him is foolish. Wise men and women live by His Word and obey Him (Psalm 119:9).
https://www.intouch.org/read/magazine/daily-devotions/the-ruin-of-rebellion
...choose wisely!
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