Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
|
Jealous aren't you.
When you show me something worthy of being jealous of, I might consider it. All you've shown me so far is that you're an uneducated fat midget with a little napoleon complex and a total lack of understanding of grade school level math and science concepts.
Only person you're fooling with the overhead shot there "Boats" is yourself. But if you want some training tips to shed that Michelin and get into some actual climbing shape (while "round" is a shape, it's not exactly climbing shape) let me know, I can help you out.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
|
See "The Chief" all that good kharma rubs off, somehow.
Home working on the TDI vanagon,wish i could get out climbing,you guys brought it up,dammit.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
|
Went out to breakfast with the wife this am. Unrolled the sunday paper and what do I see; " Ocean acidification destroying the ecosystem at an alarming rate". The catastrophe folk first were all over the disaster of "global warming", which subtly morphed to "climate change" when the lack of warming was noted, before public awareness, by the scientific community. Now the dreaded weather extremes have failed to materialize regardless of the extreme hype job of the compliant media and the IPCC is about to implode. So what happens, well the weather wieners are moving offshore and calling for huge funding increases to study, then offset, this looming disaster via- you guessed it- severe fossil fuel use reductions, more funding for wind and solar, and of course carbon taxation. These guys have more heads than the hydra and refuse to give up on their socialist engineering schemes.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
|
All your examples are indicative of the phase change to global cooling. Now where are the permanent droughts, the more powerful and more frequent twisters, the more powerful and more frequent hurricanes, the heat wave records far outpacing new cold records, the ice free arctic by 2013, the continental ice sheets of Antarctica and Greenland sliding up out of their basins and to the sea, the more frequent mega floods, etc. etc.
You guys are not going to get away with claiming the global cooling symptoms as CO2 warming induced climate change that manifests as weather conditions creating more severe winters and increased glaciation.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
|
^^^^^^oh, that extreme weather^^^^^^
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
|
The European Space Agency has had a satellite up for a couple of years now, and it measures ice. It is called "CRYOSAT."
You can go to their site and look at the data that they are getting.
It is showing that the loss of northern polar ice is a loss in volume. Not just in area. The dataset is so short that it probably isn't meaningful yet, but the data is the data....
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/CryoSat_reveals_major_loss_of_Arctic_sea_ice
The Chief: Where are your satellites showing otherwise? I know that the right wingers don't like science, or at least the religious ones.
Just watch this all play out. In our lifetimes it probably will be modest, but if we start tickling Cretaceous CO2 levels, we will be playing with fire.
One thing confuses me. During the cold war, we (and the Russians) were willing to spend huge amounts of money on defense. We didn't know if a war was coming. We were just looking at the possibility.
So here we have something that is more than just a possibility, yet an entire political group has made it their mission to deny. Facts and numbers? Blah! We make up our own facts, and misinterpret your numbers.
OK. I'm going to go post on a climbing thread. I can only stand so much of this thread.
Have fun. Please tone down the insults. This is a family friendly website.
edit: I think that it is true that people are constantly trying to correlate a simple weather event to climate change. We need a long dataset to see it.
What you guys don't get about global warming is this: It is just starting to show, and it isn't going to happen quickly in human terms. It WILL happen quickly in geologic time terms.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
|
EXACTLY BASE.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
|
It WAS a possibility Base. The problem is that they overhyped nightmare scenarios, none of which materialized and now the natural cycles of climate change are drowning out the modest rise from increased CO2. We may well be in for a period of cooling with the quiet sun of cycle 24 and forecasts for 25, the PDO in negative phase and indications that atlantic oscillations are following suit, increased reflective aerosols, etc. Yes, your correct Cryosat short duration does not allow much for calling a trend. Don't you think that long before we get to Cretaceous CO2 levels we will have moved on to economically viable alternatives?
Mentalcase, I sense your frustration at the cult of doom you embraced slipping from your grasp. Don't worry their will be a comet or something coming along that you can attach to like the Raelians to Kahotek.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
|
yada ,yada ,yada .
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
|
^^^Exactly^^^^^
Ron, Rick, and Chief Moooobs don't give a crap about facts or learning.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
|
Stick to jackalope stuffing...
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
|
Yes, your correct Cryosat short duration does not allow much for calling a trend.
One thing Cryosat has already done is to substantially confirm, using independent instruments and methods, the Arctic sea volume estimates produced by PIOMAS. And PIOMAS definitely shows a trend. For example, here are volume estimates for August 31, 1979 to 2013, which have declined at an average rate of 330 cubic kilometers per year.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
|
^^^^
you lie!
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
|
It WILL happen quickly in geologic time terms.
Base, I was talking with my father, also a geologist, about climate change last week. His view is that the geologic record suggests medium-term consequences of the GHG buildup are likely to be much more severe than most atmospheric scientist envision.
|
|
monolith
climber
SF bay area
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
|
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
|
Well Larry, isn't there some satellite data from the early to mid 70's that shows a marked rise in extent, and presumably volume, up to the "high peak" of '79 that your graph conveniently starts from? Isn't there also extensive historical accounts of many ebbs and flows in Arctic sea ice extent.
Also I find this "ice volume" argument a little disingenuous since we just finished the ice melt season, of course the depth is now low. Let's see what the satellite sees after the coming freeze season. Finally, do they measure the ice thickness with a gravitometer or what instrument, and how has been it calibrated with the one it succeeds and the other nations satellites?
I guess Ed is a bit behind the times seeing as he is developing secret new climbing areas and all. Ed, it went from catastrophic global warming to catastrophic global climate change and is now trending towards catastrophic global ocean acidification, by some indications anyway .
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
|
A lot of people there are in "grandfathered " parcels along that creek[Boulder]. It has some to do with why they were able to build on flood plains also.
I live [right now] on a creek from a Finger lake here,if we get 10 inches of rain ,we are fffed. None of us are built near the 100 year flood elevation.
But i do not know why i even contend.This is all usual and its happened before.right,right.
monolith....nice
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Sep 15, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
|
Well Larry, isn't there some satellite data from the early to mid 70's that shows a marked rise in extent, and presumably volume, up to the "high peak" of '79 that your graph conveniently starts from?
Well Rick, there isn't. Most of the satellite series begin in late 1978 or 1979 (I like how you snuck a conspiracy theory in there!), but a few reconstructions go back to 1972. Here's the University of Bremen sea ice extent series up through 2012:
I'm not sure if their newer data are harmonized with the old series. I got similar results by statistically combining several NSIDC data sets, and this version has the advantage that I can update it using the same rules this year:
Isn't there also extensive historical accounts of many ebbs and flows in Arctic sea ice extent.
Yes, historical accounts and a fair amount of research, based on data ranging from physical and biological proxy reconstructions to historical shipping records and Cold War submarine data. Many good studies using these resources have come out in the past few years.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!