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Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Aug 29, 2011 - 11:16am PT

fattrad, you imperialist running dog lackey!

dirtbag

climber

Aug 29, 2011 - 11:16am PT

“I don’t know how much God has to do to get the attention of politicians,” the GOP presidential hopeful said over the weekend at a campaign event in Florida, the St. Petersburg Times reports. “We’ve had an earthquake; we’ve had a hurricane. He said, 'Are you going to start listening to me here?' Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we've got to rein in the spending."

-Michele Bachmann.

Fooking idiot, but typical tea bagger.

bookworm

Social climber

Falls Church, VA

Aug 29, 2011 - 12:02pm PT

he's not a repub, but he is right on most things:

The Pro-Life Ron Paul

Ron Paul turns from his usual campaign themes and talks about life.

When Ron Paul spoke at the Ames Straw Poll earlier this month, he did not start by launching into a tirade about the Federal Reserve or lamenting the United States’s military policy in Afghanistan. Instead, Paul first spoke about abortion.

It was a surprising twist. Paul is pro-life, and has been for his entire career. But his serious pro-life perspective has often taken a back seat to his views on the economy and foreign policy.

“We must be pro-life or you cannot be pro-liberty the way I understand it,” Paul said at Ames. Speaking about his experience as a medical student in the Sixties, he talked about seeing one premature baby deliberately being allowed to die and another baby, also premature, being rescued by a diligent medical staff. “My conclusion that very day is you cannot have relative value for life and deal with that.” he observed. “We cannot play God and make those decisions. All life is precious.”

It was not the first time this campaign Paul had taken time out from his more commonly expressed concerns to emphasize his pro-life views. In June, he spoke, via Skype, to the Right to Life convention in Jacksonville, Fla. He has signed the Susan B. Anthony List’s pro-life pledge for presidential candidates. And he announced that the second budget priority for a Paul presidency would be “veto[ing] any spending bill that contains funding for Planned Parenthood, facilities that perform abortion, and all government family-planning schemes.” That came behind vetoing “spending bills that contribute to an unbalanced budget” but ahead of “direct[ing] my administration to cease any further implementation of Obamacare.”

And while Mike Huckabee drew the social-conservative hype in the 2008 election cycle, it was Paul who was the only presidential candidate to speak at that year’s National March for Life in Washington, D.C. Paul also received the endorsement of high-profile pro-life activist Norma McCorvey (“Jane Roe”) in that campaign.

But Paul still has a problem with pro-lifers. He wants to return abortion-legalization decisions to the states, not work to make abortion illegal on the federal level. “Strangely, given that my moral views are akin to theirs, various national pro-life groups have been hostile to my position on this issue. But I also believe in the Constitution, and therefore, I consider it a state-level responsibility to restrain violence against any human being,” Paul wrote in his book Liberty Defined, published this spring.

In practical terms, what Paul proposes is removing abortion-related legislation from the jurisdiction of the federal courts rather than fighting to overturn Roe v. Wade. He views his proposal as “simpler,” since the jurisdiction could be removed via legislation rather than pushing for a Supreme Court decision, and he believes that if the jurisdiction of the federal courts was removed, abortion laws could be decided on a state-by-state basis. “Ending nationally legalized abortions by federal court order is neither a practical answer to the problem nor a constitutionally sound argument,” he wrote.

Paul is suspicious of the motivations of pro-lifers who object to his view that abortion is a matter for the states. “My guess is that the scurrilous attacks by these groups are intended more to discredit my entire defense of liberty and the Constitution than they are to deal with the issue of abortion,” he argued in Liberty Defined. “These same groups have very little interest in being pro-life when it comes to fighting illegal, undeclared wars in the Middle East or preventive (aggressive) wars for religious reasons. An interesting paradox!”

Paul’s federalist views on abortion laws make it unlikely he could ever capture the majority of the social-conservative vote. Rick Perry expressed similar views on abortion and gay-marriage laws in July. Then, after an uproar from social conservatives, he stated that he believed in federal amendments banning abortion and defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

Paul’s most valuable contribution to the pro-life movement may be his insistence that libertarian views not only are compatible with, but are reliant upon, pro-life views. That’s a perspective that distinguishes Paul from the other libertarian in the GOP race — Gary Johnson, who is pro-abortion — and one that he is unapologetic about.

“Today I’m going to emphasize something slightly different from just the cause of liberty because there is something that precedes liberty, and that is life,” Paul said at Ames. “I believe in a very limited role for government, but the prime reason that government exists in a free society is to protect liberty but also to protect life.”

Just in case that wasn’t clear enough, Paul added, “And I mean all life.”

— Katrina Trinko is an NRO reporter.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Aug 29, 2011 - 12:08pm PT

God sent Irene to tell the gov't not to spend so much money?
Wow, it's so hard to understand his messages sometimes.
Good thing Michelle has a direct line.

Wow, she would be such a peach for a president....

bookworm

Social climber

Falls Church, VA

Aug 29, 2011 - 12:19pm PT

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/27/opinion/a-poll-tax-by-another-name.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

if requiring a valid id to vote is a "poll tax", racially motivated, and unfair to minorities (and, according to john lewis, college students), then...

isn't requiring valid id to purchase tobacco or alcohol a sin tax, which factually does affect minorities and the poor more negatively?

isn't requiring valid id to see an r-rated film a cinema tax?

isn't requiring valid id to drive an additional form of income tax since so many people, including minorities, depend on their cars to get them to work? and isn't this also racist because it, according to john lewis, prohibits minorities from certain jobs?

isn't requiring valid id to apply for a job also racist?

isn't requiring valid id to fly on a plane also racist?

and who, besides those underage who want to buy booze, uses a college id as valid id?

and isn't it remarkable that all these college students that john lewis knows don't have driver's licenses?

and doesn't john lewis know that you must present VALID ID and PASS A TEST to obtain a concealed carry permit?

and does john lewis believe that his being required to present VALID ID just to enter the capitol building is racist and unfairly impacts him as a minority?

i could go on, but you get it...unless you're a lib

rottingjohnny

Sport climber

mammoth lakes ca

Aug 29, 2011 - 12:36pm PT

Romney is merely dumbing himself down to compete with the dumber Perry who is dumbing himself down to Bachmann so that the Republican voters will have a simple , easy to understand agenda to grasp which is eliminate all liberals.....While Republicans refuse to acknowledge any connection between science , technology and government , absurd theories like trickle down , creationism , and weather calamities sent to punish gays and liberals have become gospel for the mouth drooling buffoons.. Amen

rottingjohnny

Sport climber

mammoth lakes ca

Aug 29, 2011 - 12:49pm PT

Fattrad...haven't heard any whoppers like Bachmann's or Perry's coming from any of the Democratic candidates..? Can't broad brush that one , dude..

bookworm

Social climber

Falls Church, VA

Aug 29, 2011 - 01:25pm PT

more proof of the benefits of government intervention:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-sex-offender-baby-sitters-20110828-107,0,2452349,full.story

and efficiency:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/postal-service-paying-fewer-workers-to-do-nothing/2011/08/26/gIQA6b9nmJ_blog.html

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Aug 29, 2011 - 01:33pm PT

Gary,

Thanks for keeping up the good humor when I got too preachy.

Hope all is well.

John

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Aug 29, 2011 - 01:36pm PT

t's not just vouchers, it's discipline, if not at home, then at school. Our liberals do not believe in discipline, they believe n everyone "expressing their own valid thoughts". The criminal is never guilty, just a product of a malfunctioning home, school, society, it's the insane liberals fault.

You believe this because the murder rate in places like Oakland is high? Mercy.. Lets destruct this nonsense

I will start with this statement

The criminal is never guilty, just a product of a malfunctioning home, school, society, it's the insane liberals fault.

The reason liberals look for the whys of the criminal is so that they can try and avert the criminal life. Liberals put criminals in jail. They just tend to believe that execution isn't always the answer because the state often makes mistakes in who it executes. We also don't believe it is a good idea to put people into institutions that ingrain their bad behavior. Yes its true that some criminals will never change, but some do. Weeding them out is not an exact science.

There is a lot more that could go into this, but I doubt Jeff will ever understand, just as some never understand Karma. This world is full of some of the most obtuse people that exist.

As for the high crime rate. Lots of cities have high crime rates. It has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism. It has to do with so many people being packed too closely together with few healthy outlets for their frustrations, coupled with crippling poverty. Hope becomes lost and crime goes up.

Bakersfield is a conservative mecca. try its crime rate out. lots of conservative cities have high crime rates.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Aug 29, 2011 - 01:59pm PT

Bakersfield is a conservative mecca. try its crime rate out. lots of conservative cities have high crime rates

When I was an undergrad in Berkeley in the late 1960's and early 1970's, Bakersfield passed a city ordinance requiring a mandatory death penalty for marijuana possession! Of course, state law preempted that but, as the National Lampoon put it, "it shows you where their heads were at."

John

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Aug 29, 2011 - 02:11pm PT

A 95% graduation rate and 85% on to college. No, a feel good, do anything liberal thought process leads to crime.

Liberals don't have a "feel good, do anything" thought process. If you are going to persist in that thinking, then perhaps I should start saying stuff like, conservatives just want to kill everyone. How would that be? Does it solve anything? Nope. It just causes more angst and we end up hating each other. The world has enough hate without that kind of rhetoric.

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Aug 29, 2011 - 02:31pm PT

John,

Everything is good. Except the Chopin.

How's your hand injury, you fascist pig?

(I don't think this is necessary, but just in case some might not get it.)
:-)

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Aug 29, 2011 - 03:03pm PT

Thanks for asking, Gary. The hand is better, and I'm able to play the piano for at least an hour at a time now. I had hoped to try a quick test session at the climbing gym last Saturday, but time and pain got in the way. I'll try tonight of tomorrow, but I think I'm ready to resume climbing.

Carry on, fellow travelor.

;)

john

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Aug 29, 2011 - 03:49pm PT

Rootin' Tootin' Rick Perry.

Your. New. GOP banner carrier.

"Don't mess wif Texussss"

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Aug 29, 2011 - 05:21pm PT

So here is a litmus test: The death penalty. For or against.

I assert that it is not a deterent against killing (the main crime for which it is imposed)

I assert that it imposes a huge taxpayer burden on those states that choose to have the penalty.

I assert that the death penalty places a LARGER burden and penalty on the families of the VICTIMS.

I assert that the death penalty is an easier penalty on a criminal than life in prison.

I assert that a significant number of errors have been made in convictions in death penalty cases, and continue to be made. A death penalty cannot be reversed.

All of these things caused me to change from being an advocate to being an opponent.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Aug 29, 2011 - 06:13pm PT

I agree essentially with both of you that the death penalty, as currently administered in California, has too little deterrent effect. I think that's both because of the unlikelihood of the sentence's execution, and the delay between conviction and execution. While it certainly deters the prisoner executed, it's not clear that it deters anyone else. In fact, it's probably safer for a mobster to be on death row than on the street.

Ironically, when executions were public, the public turned against the death penalty. Making them semi-secret affairs actually increased public support for it.

While I think Ken M's points have merit, I still think there are certain people who society simply cannot restrain, even in prison. In Fresno, we had a case where a man was convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. From that prison cell, he ordered the killing of those who testified against him. Several were killed. Although it took a couple of decades, that prisoner was eventually executed. The victim's families definitely feel better knowing that the perp is dead.

Balanced against that is the great legal cost of every death penalty case. I don't think many would prefer the Chinese system, where the prisoner is tried, convicted and shot in relatively short order, after which the prisoner's family gets a bill for the bullets. We know the legal system is too imperfect, and an all-powerful government too abusive. Nonetheless, sometimes, protection of society demands that certain particularly violent and unrestrained people be stopped even, if necessary, by killing them.

John