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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 13, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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Aghh, Pete, it's hard to look at that last photo. Would you mind bluring out the face a bit?
(har, har)
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jul 13, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
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as an alternative to using bolts, i made my own mashies and bashies back in the early sixties from little blocks of aluminum with a hole in the middle threaded with parachute cord
the trick was to get a grip on the rock before the parachute cord got smashed to the point of breaking
i showed these to Royal and he loved them
Royal had me demonstrate these to Lionel Terray on his visit to Yosemite with his arm in a cast from the first ascent of Chacraraju
Lionel looked at one of my placements and said there was no way that could work 'pas possible!'...then he was able to place his full weight in the aid sling and jump on it
'mon dieu!'
edit: several of us were also experimenting with methods by which the slab under the Dihedral Wall might be ascended; resulting in the discovery that about 18 inches of Duct tape combined with GPA slab climbing techniques would hold your weight for a while at that slab angle on a cloudy cool day
in retrospect, gaffer's tape would probably do better
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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edit: several of us were also experimenting with methods by which the slab under the Dihedral Wall might be ascended; resulting in the discovery that about 18 inches of Duct tape combined with GPA slab climbing techniques would hold your weight for a while at that slab angle on a cloudy cool day
Sweet! Where's the nearest Home Depot?
That is absolutely great!
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 13, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
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a while back the Chief wrote:
"Interesting how the "consensus" in this 2800 plus post discourse was that DR & SJ's new "Rap bolted" route on the SF of HD was OK."
Sorry I can't let that go unanswered.
I don't recall any such consensus, especially not on the SFHD.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 13, 2011 - 03:42pm PT
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Too bad we can't measure and weigh every grain of granite removed from El Cap for each FA pitch on every route and rank them. I have the sneaking suspicion the first nine pitches WoS would rank solidly in the bottom tenth of that list.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 13, 2011 - 03:46pm PT
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If I drag a hook across an edge to "clean up the edge", you know, I'm up there, I want as good a hook as I can get, I'm cleaning out some grit, is that merely cleaning or is that enhancing?
I can't imagine Robbins, Frost, Pratt and Chouinard not doing that on, i.e., the NA and calling it "enhancing". Eh?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:13pm PT
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What? You thought he got up things clean? You can bet he spent most of those fifteen hours on the Nose stopping to abrade - sorry, chip - the sh#t out of it at every stance.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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So there I am, a couple of weeks ago, up on ZM, apparently off route, although I didn't know it at the time. I'm standing on a hook placement that looked like it had been used before but I couldn't see any placements above. I searched and searched and found a little hole with some sand in it. I took out a wire and did my best to clean the sand out of the hole. So far so good except for this tiny little pebble that would be blocking the exit of a wire for a bomber but tiny nut placement. I tickled it a bit with the wire to no avail. Finally I grabbed a beak, and was able to work the little tiny stone out of the crack. A tiny nut just fit into the hole and slot. I top stepped up on it and realized I was off route.
Enhancement (not allowed) or cleaning (allowed)?
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Gene
climber
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
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Enhancement (not allowed) or cleaning (allowed)?
Mark,
We'll have your answer in about 2,000 posts.
g
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:27pm PT
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Sweet essay.
Keep up the good work team, lots of people are rooting for ya!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:30pm PT
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Enhancement (not allowed) or cleaning (allowed)?
Deep down in your heart of hearts you know which it was...
...and you still feel guilty about it don't you? You can be honest - this is Supertopo after all.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:53pm PT
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PTPP said - Only a hundred head placements and four pitches to Aquarian Wall!
yeah that is really proud, you aid climbers are so amusing when you take yourself seriously.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 13, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
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Mark's scenario - purely hypothetical, I'm sure, a mere thought experiment - would at least make him an accessory after the fact.
And then there's the "special equipment" that Weld_it provided...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:11pm PT
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Hey there, Goatboy - howz about we set you up with a pair of aiders and a handful of heads and a few toolz, and send you up a nice steep heading crack?
We can watch your bollocks shrivel in terror with each successive placement.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:22pm PT
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They would shrivel because I turned into an aid climber then the turbo betties would shun me...because I turned into an aid climber.
Maybe I better to stick to french free routes only just to be safe.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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All my hooks are sharpened to points so there is no way in hell they aren't doing some damage.
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Burt
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Everything we do modifies the rock... Belay bolts on Jolly Roger, to head ladders on WOS... The purist truly are the ones who never leave the ground, anything past that we are all just stroking our own egos... but once a route has been laid out I firmly feel that it is wrong to bring out the drill to make the route more convenient or to ease your scared pussy ass! ... those are the ones that Mimi and Steve should be screaming about!
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:36pm PT
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Again I say.....sure hope those two make an ascent! Will be good hear the words they have to say either way. WAY more than I could ever handle, would be good to see em do it.
Peace
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jul 13, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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Thanks for the nice little essay Pete.
Got sucked in, I admit it. After years of shunning WOS threads I got curious about Ammon and Kait's bid. Not an aid climber, not a wall buy, so the little tutorial bounced me from totally clueless to, to... Well, now I have a lot more appreciation for what you guys do.
And yes, respect even.
Just one question left: Is the summit of the Captain festooned with weirdly fossilized, tube-shaped compost offerings?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 13, 2011 - 06:16pm PT
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Doing my part to get to 999 posts for #1mama.
Everything we do modifies the rock... Belay bolts on Jolly Roger, to head ladders on WOS... The purist truly are the ones who never leave the ground,
The big wall routes on the captain are not 100% pure, but Nutcracker was a statement that pure climbs are possible. No pitons, no bolts needed. That climb could have been done thousands of time with only some polishing really changing the route (unfortunately even on that historic climb a few boneheads tried to place a bolt and pound some pins, not THAT'S shameful).
Belay bolts don't really change the nature of a big wall route much, but any other time the hammer comes out it does change the route. We have new cams, Tomahawk Pitons, and who knows what else the future holds. So even the climber trying to be as pure is possible is making a decision to accept a certain amount of "damage" when they wield a hammer that future climbers may not need to do to FA that route.
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