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Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Sep 24, 2013 - 07:46pm PT

Thanks Greg...I thought so. The sky isn't falling.

MT10910 wrote: Yeah it is funny how Americans with about 100 years of climbing history

Because the world revolve around America, or better yet Yosemite. :-)

JL..wasn't the BY done with hooks? I could be wrong.

bvb

Social climber

flagstaff arizona

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:03pm PT

The kind that little girls give Justin Bieber.

There he goes with the kids again. Kinda creepy.

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:10pm PT

John long..thanks for the reply.

It is slippery slope that the climbing community has to come to grips with.

Greg Barnes

climber

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:11pm PT

Thanks Greg...I thought so. The sky isn't falling.

Exactly. Armchair debate...kinda fun to watch, but kind of sad and depressing too.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:13pm PT

JL wrote: . . . maintain the legacy of Yosemite being the Mecca of world rock climbing, against which all other areas and climbs were measured.

Now John you have gone way to far!!!!!!!!!!!!

STONEY POINT .... THE MECA OF ALL RAD CLIMBING.

MT..... YOU ever do any of those rad climbs???? Post up a pic of STONEY all snowed up.... like to see it.

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:16pm PT

Greg wrote: Exactly. Armchair debate...kinda fun to watch, but kind of sad and depressing too.

Yes it is at times.

Greg...A heart felt thanks for all you have done on upgrading routes and your service to the climbing community in the US.

Largo

Sport climber

The Big Wide Open Face

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:30pm PT

I'm actually serious. Unless people are just talking out the sides of their mouths, and are unwilling to act on their beliefs, there is absolutely no reason not to immediately bolt up both Black Primo and Bacher-Yerian and just see how the experiment plays out. People have been adamant that no one owns the rock, that the old farts have no logical right to say how they can and should climb, and that the old museum climbs are just sitting there, taking up space.

Again, I'll buy the bolts and hangars. We'll need about shitload for the Bachar - Yerian but I'm good for it. So who's ready to start updating those old routes?

JL

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:34pm PT

Yeah!

About time!

A bolt every eight feet on Turbo Flange so I can do it too!

No more discrimination against the old and the weak!

rmuir

Social climber

From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:43pm PT

Since those whinging on this thread are unwilling to provide specifics, here's a museum piece that has seen some action recently...

Those investing in the Hedge Fund would probably agree this deserves an R rating (unless you think a potential 40' fall deserves an X). Minimal bolts, and below my max level of difficulty, the FA was done with all the <sarcasm>hypocritical arrogance that so offends the delicate sensibilities of the chaste.</sarcasm> But, hell, it's just a little 10d move 20' out...

The second ascent party thought it prudent to add another bolt to beef up the belay and to prevent the leader from falling directly on the belay bolts. Perhaps justifiable, given it was a party of four--but it did soften the route. (On hindsight, that party agreed that it was unnecessary and the bolt has been removed. Sorry, Hedge Better.)

Since then, others have danced the moves in modern shoes using a top rope. But they also acknowledge that it isn't the same as doing the moves from the ground up without prior inspection. They would also agree that they haven't really done the route. (And the respect for this route is pretty high--in this little backwater where the YDS system was developed, and pansies like Kamps, Higgins, Frost, Robbins, and the Stonemasters helped develop routes of Art.)

Thus, a modern interpretation of climbing ethics accepts that the style of the FA is to be respected. It is commonly understood that no additional bolting is proper, and violators will be persecuted.

If you haven't had enough Empty, hump on down here and save this climbing community from itself.

Oh... All that Alaska sh#t? I did the eighth ascent of Foraker and soloed the North Face of Les Courtes. Others here are far more accomplished in big mountains, than you. I choose not to do that stuff anymore because the objective risks are too high for me to justify. I'm scared of that sh#t now, but I won't argue for cables, fixed pickets, warming huts, and the sh#t that would reduce the risk. I just don't do those routes and leave 'em be.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Sep 24, 2013 - 08:47pm PT

Greg Barnes

climber

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:08pm PT

Greg...A heart felt thanks for all you have done on upgrading routes and your service to the climbing community in the US.

Thanks Bob - but I've only done a handful of bolts the last few years - sending bolts is what I do these days (126 lbs today).

Big thanks to all those out replacing the old mank! Roger Brown recently passed 2600 bolts replaced in the Valley and Tuolumne! Yep, all hand drilled. Plus he didn't even keep track with his early bolts. And I had to convince him to stop drilling 3.5" holes at first (his early replacements were super long 3/8"). He's even thinking of moving on to other spots...as long as the locals don't mind him hand drilling even when power drills are allowed (no, I am not joking...).

Tons and tons of dedicated folks - Bruce Hildenbrand for decades at Pinnacles & in CO...Josh Lyons and the Thaitanium Project folks, gearing up for another season of replacing 300+ bolts with titanium glue-ins on overhung Thai walls...Sam Lightner Jr for tons in Wyoming, Moab, Thailand, and now Wild Iris & Sinks...Michael Schneiter & Lynn Sanson for Rifle, Independence Pass, etc...Kevin Powell & Bob Gaines for endless replacement in JT and Tahquitz/Suicide...Darrell Hensel & Jonny Woodward for huge replacement work in Whitney Portal...and that's just a handful, the list goes on and on!

Largo

Sport climber

The Big Wide Open Face

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:09pm PT

Way too passive, Joe. You can't talk a big game and then fold once it's time to take action. Now the time to call Wolf on the posers. The old farts laid down the law via action according to what they believed, for better or worse.
Now the new generation is talking huge, and they need to take action to cement the authenticity of their arguments. Like I said, I'll buy the gear, drive them to the base, and even photograph the efforts.

And if Black Primo or the Bachar Yerian is not huge enough to make a thesis statement so everyone can get on board, then we'l bolt up an even bigger name route. But it's got to be a big one because people don't know what a stir this is gonna cause and they have to be willing to take the heat over their convictions, like we have. Now it's your turn.

So what are you willing to do to back up your arguments, Joe? You said them with such conviction we assume you are wiling to go the distance to prove your sincerity in this regards. But waiting, or doing nothing , or "not worrying, it will get done" is a non-answer and is unacceptabble. It's all about action now.

JL

Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:23pm PT

Greg wrote: Thanks Bob - but I've only done a handful of bolts the last few years - sending bolts is what I do these days (126 lbs today).

We got some (from Bruce) for the Penitente Canyon anchor replacement the last two years...over 80 routes with updated anchors, bolts and hangers.

Shelf Rd is in November...we could use some love from you. :-)

johnkelley

climber

Anchorage Alaska

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:29pm PT

Don't worry JL nothing will happen. These dicks are to sac less to runout 5.7 much less slap retro bolts into any classics. Bolting Bob brought up Kelsey Gay, an Alaskan retro bolter, something about him eating a bucket of dicks. Ask him what happens to retro bolts here. They'd get the chop there too if it ever did happen.

johnkelley

climber

Anchorage Alaska

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:35pm PT

Forgot the photo. My biggest slab route,130+ pitches, is just left of the rock. BTW that's a 9,000' unclimbed rock face.

johnkelley

climber

Anchorage Alaska

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:46pm PT

Yeah

rmuir

Social climber

From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.

Sep 24, 2013 - 09:46pm PT

It's already happening - just not on those routes. No need to concern yourself about it at the moment - you'll hear all about it soon enough.

The Prophet of Doom has spoken. The sky is falling and woe unto them that knows differently... Sheesh.

someone is always better,
your point being?

Uh... You're not.

...and you've got f*#kall to say in the matter of FAs on California rock, and your authority is without credential in this meritocracy.