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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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The pictures say nothing confirming OR denying a wall. Keep in mind the picture was taken the day after the incident had occurred and the villagers probably wanted to hide their involvement if they indeed were involved.
Look at the where the truck is, why were they driving off road? Don't give me that drunk crap, look at their blog, there is no history of them getting wasted and partying it up. Two beers between three people does not do this to you. All the other picture shows is the ditch running a short ways back, they were probably driving on the opposite side of it before what the picture shows.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Missing the point bud. The biggest rock in ANY of their pictures is the one by her foot. No rocks in front of them, no rocks behind them.
I don't care how many cities your ancestors built, you can't build a 2 foot high road block with a couple rocks.
(Going back for that picture I realized Fluoride already picked up on this discrepancy in the story. Credit where credit is due... geologist by chance? Or maybe just observant.)
Maybe they thought they were on this road...
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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Really ME? I see a hell of a lot more rocks in that picture than one.
Edit to add.. Nice edit. I see a hell of a lot more rocks in the picture of the Wolfroms than one.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Okay, there might be 3. There certainly ain't enough to build a 2 foot high roadblock.
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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Look closer.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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God, please tell me you are referring to the walls 1/4 mile away... I need a good laugh.
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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Yes the rock walls, containing rocks, that could be used to make a rock wall.
That are fairly close. That exist on the hillier side of the road that is not shown in the rest of the photographs, or extensively in this photograph.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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hahahaaaahaaaaaa. Those Peruvians are more devious than I could have ever imagined.
The road ended at a school about 10 minutes after we started driving. There was a man there and we asked him if we could camp and he said no, so we had to turn around and start driving back towards where we first encountered the mob. Soon we were approached by two motor bikes coming from the village and many people on foot. They started approaching the vehicle and we asked them if we could please leave. They said they would not let us leave and then started throwing rocks at the truck and building a rock blockade on the road in front of us. We drove over the first blockade and there were villagers up on the hill above the road continuing to throw rocks at the truck. They threw a large rock through the passenger window, breaking it and hitting me in the face and cutting my jaw. They also threw a rock through the driver’s side window, hitting my brother. We soon were met with another large road blockade of boulders that we could not drive through. At this blockade they threw rocks at the windshield and destroyed it.
That's a lot of fuking rocks to take out of a wall 1/4 mile away... and then put back by the next morning.
I have no doubt the villagers were throwing rocks. I have no doubt the situation could have been completely avoided. I also have no doubt the story is sensationalized, whether intentionally or not doesn't matter.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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As for me, I'm amazed at the armchair quarterbacks who seriously think their half-informed pronouncements merit any respect whatsoever. ST: Solving the world's issues daily... riiiigghht.
And I'm amazed that people regularly take the time to post on threads devoted to bullshitting about some miscellaneous news story or other to register an objection to that bullshitting.
But I suppose it's fun to go through life with a sense of amazement over trivial things, so carry on.
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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Riley
You really think these villagers have a good relationship with the police? Given the history of Peru?
MeChrist
No one said they took the rocks from those specific rock walls a quarter mile away, we don't see what is behind them on that side of the road, maybe a rock wall that comes close? Sure looks like there are plenty of rocks in the area to me which you claimed there weren't.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
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New Mini series:
Mechrist and Riley.... Interweb detectives
...this week on assignment in Peru....
What made normally peaceful villagers fly into a rage, was it the lime-green nano puffs or the drunken, lying Americans?
...don, Don, DON!
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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All that matters is the truth of the situation and the truth of the details!
You don't even have to know what they are lying about - the sister tells us enough with her own words for us to know that the way they depict their victimization is simply not true.
I think Riley nailed this discussion
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Al_Smith
climber
San Francisco, CA
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I've been trying to avoid this whole thread (especially taking a stance on what did or did not happen) as I like to visit Supertopo to give and receive climbing advice, read PellucidWombat's completely fabulous TRs, etc.
That said, I just have to say that the thing that pisses me off most about this saga and the Wolfrom's account of it, is the part where they state that they were whipped with ropes and tortured.
The original rock throwing, bear spray spraying, barricade building hysterics may have happened in a gigantic misunderstanding (or worse.) Claiming to have been tortured through the night (other than psychologically as it relates to their fear of being killed or the like) is pretty f'in serious.
They have nothing to prove to me or anyone else, and I feel sorry for them in so much as they are obviously injured and had a trip ruined. I also feel bad for the Peruvians who rely on the tourist industry to earn a living who may see diminished revenues as a result of the media hubbub surrounding this.
But again, if you claim you have been tortured but are able to write/blog about it just days after, then I've got some serious questions about your credibility.
Here's hoping the truth comes out or that this all goes away very, very soon.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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I also feel bad for the Peruvians who rely on the tourist industry to earn a living who may see diminished revenues as a result of the media hubbub surrounding this.
The climbers are promoting it for fundraising purposes. Someone should ask them if they think they're damaging the tourist industry there, at the upcoming black tie event in Jackson Hole.
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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The pictures say nothing confirming OR denying a wall. Keep in mind the picture was taken the day after the incident had occurred and the villagers probably wanted to hide their involvement if they indeed were involved.
Look at the where the truck is, why were they driving off road? Don't give me that drunk crap, look at their blog, there is no history of them getting wasted and partying it up. Two beers between three people does not do this to you. All the other picture shows is the ditch running a short ways back, they were probably driving on the opposite side of it before what the picture shows.
Probably hide their involvement? I thought we are not speculating?
They said they had two beer thats not really drunk but, uuuh, they likely slid off cause it's really muddy there and if a rock was tossed at the window in the night then may not have noticed a deep canal.
I am on Riley and Mechrists side; the rock wall thing does not add up, or the "cliff" they saw in the night.
and sorry, people really gave them $$ via Facebook??!
Really? no? haha
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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This is so a book I am buying!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I have been trying to think of an analogy for this thread - the best I can come up with is a Calculus class where a few folks have already got it, a few will never get it, a few haven't even opened the book and the rest are strung out in various corners of not understanding.
Yeah, Riley and you're one of the ones strung out in a corner.
You can't even drive around in the U.S. without getting into altercations and getting tooled. Wait until you've learned how to behave at home before telling us what we should do in Peru.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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But again, if you claim you have been tortured but are able to write/blog about it just days after, then I've got some serious questions about your credibility.
They never used the word "torture" but said that they had rocks thrown at their heads and were whipped with ropes and beaten. They major of the village as admitted that they were attacked. The pictures taken in the morning when the police arrive show them pretty beaten up.
So now they are lying because they shouldn't be able to write about it? Maybe you would still be having a nervous breakdown and be peeing your pants days later, but all that shows is that most people are stronger then you.
I can't prove that everything that they say is true, and I can't prove that some of it isn't incorrect.
But of all the arguments that they are lying on this thread, this is the weakest.
You're making Riley look smart.
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Al_Smith
climber
San Francisco, CA
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“We were whipped and beaten for a few hours in between sessions of interrogation.”
Sounds like the definition of torture to me.
Either way, you are an interesting person Granite. If you believe that no one has the right to express an opinion or viewpoint except for yourself, then why participate in a forum where the purpose is to express opinions and dialogue with others about things climbing (and not climbing - as the case may be) related? Why not just sit quietly and admire your own intellect and toughness?
Oh and on that score, I think its funny that given that we know each other so well that you find it possible to characterize my relative level of toughness. But if we are discussing the hypothetical of a large group of people beating, whipping, and interrogating me and two of my loved ones over the course of several hours, then yes, I sincerely doubt I'd have the wherewithal or desire to take to my blog the following day to share that suffering with the entire world wide web. I imagine I'd be talking about it, but I'd be doing so with my family, those I shared the experience with, law enforcement, etc. That was my only point. So if that makes me a wuss then I accept the charge.
You on the other hand I take it would be on the Taco the very next day sharing your experience and blathering away about how your family was crying while being whipped and beaten but you took the beating like the champion of courage that you are. And of course, we here on the Taco would neither question your story nor give you a hard time because after all you are so well loved and known to be so tough. I envy your intrepidity and I appreciate you setting me straight. You da' man.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Joseph finally got his door shut and we drove off quickly in the opposite direction of where we came hoping that the road would lead us away.
That's what I would do if I just upset the locals... drive deeper into the unknown hills!
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