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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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Norton norton norton
I have asked Blu a number of times to first state his "expertise" in order to then criticize science as being "lacking" somehow in regards to its findings regarding human evolution
AND also the physical creation and evolution of our own earth
My expertise is that I'm here now with an open mind! You have built a rigid little box without windows around your world. The fact is your stories of human evolution and the age of the universe. Will NOT hold up in any court of law. So they are not the true Truth maybe antidotes
At best! I am not saying science is wrong. I am taking what they have to offer and running with it. For instance; the way they date rock is by taking a radio active measurement to see how dead it is. And it's adjusted to our perceived standard time. Or its age is considered by how deep it is. Assuming it takes a long time to get buried in our rate of time. It's all turned conclusive based on our perceived standard time. And that our rate of time has not changed in some 16 billion years. I do not logically think the sun and the earth have been doing exactly the same thing in the same way for some 500 million years. I would presume the sun to be much stronger even 1 million years ago. Thus it would make it much hotter here raising radioactivity levels or it would change our orbit which would make us spin at a different rate.
Or an astroid hit us and flipped us on our axis and changed all our surface matter around.
Millions of possibilities. Science is but a surfboard I used to ride the waves and be free and enjoy! it's just an accumulation of information nothing more! It has no answers! only more questions.....
Jus Surf'in
BB
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MissJ
Social climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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There is no reality....there's only perception. So if one perceives God does not exist then he doesn't ...if one perceives God does exist then he does . There's no expertise involved to prove or not prove.
So to state "I was an atheist " is a true statement as it is what he perceived.
BB you are a devout solider. Bless you for carrying on in His name
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:25pm PT
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Blue incredibly said:
The fact is your stories of human evolution and the age of the universe. Will NOT hold up in any court of law. So they are not the true Truth maybe antidotes
stunning
And now Blu states that everything science has proven is wrong, will not "hold up"
he calls human evolution a "story", this from a guy who failed high school biology
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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Faith based beliefs can be so strong that people with normal intelligence and education (like bluey) will say things that you wouldn't expect from people with normal intelligence and education. The definition of faith is belief in something that there is no evidence for. If that's your modius operandi, the next step is to attack beliefs that ARE supported be evidence.
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MissJ
Social climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
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Norton, like the picture of you with the glass of wine surveying the beauty around you. What a peaceful , serene picture that is. Of course, were I there, I would have to have said Thank You Heavenly Father for this beautiful day.
It matters not that BB failed biology. I failed math in 4th grade but I still know 2+2 = 4.
We need to be respectful and allow each of us to believe what we perceive to be our truth.
No insulting ones level of intelligence. Even those who are thought to be highly intelligent make some pretty bad choices.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 15, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
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I'll bet either one of you 100 push-ups I can scientifically provide doubt in any of your proofs
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 15, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
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So Blue IS Russ! Good one.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 15, 2012 - 08:50pm PT
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eyyyyyyonke,
Largo, I thought I answered at least part of what you are wrongheaded about a couple of posts back. You throw your weight around in spite of having something less than, oh, intellectual heft, IMO.
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This is a wanker flame and we all know it. Where you betray your "shallow view," as described by many in various lands, is equating "intellectual heft" with the simple parroting of facts and figures belonging to others. You have offered nothing remotely substantial or even flimsy per original ideas nor yet the slightest deviation from a fundamentalist materialist stance, so we can hardly take serious the implication that you have, hidden somewhere in your dusty old rucksack, the slightest modicum of "intellectual heft." Wild accusations and intemperate speech will get you nowhere - it's easy to see why. But I can't help but have some little fun with you guys.
But seriously, my sense of this is that you have basically no idea whatsoever what I am talking about, which is partially my fault, and partially intentional.
For instance, what is your actual understanding of raw awareness, as contrasted to ephemeral brain content such as thoughts, feelings, memories, sensations? It is not enough yell "gibberish." This is basicaly saying "I don't know," but trying to thieve by on guff and bluster.
One more - what do you suspect is the limitation of the discursive mind, and what do you imagine might lie beyond it which has no relationhip whatsoever with beliefs, faith, "God," or imagination?
Again, for many, not knowing how to approach or answer such questions, "jibberish" is the equal of "I have no idea."
So how honest are you in this regards? Bust out a little of that celebrated heft if you please. I actually am curious to what a meterialist really and truly experiences when asking themselves these simple, and most basic questions.
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 15, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
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I take it from your answers that you do NOT believe in a "god" because nowhere did you say that you did
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I do not believe in an age-old mythical Abrahamic God who sits on a hill and chucks forked lightning and "creates" things. The idea that such thinking is associated with present day spiritual practices is like believing cold fusion is going be cracked by someone with a bucket and a spatula and a dash of secret sauce.
But you do say that "life" on earth in your opinion did NOT come from "primordial", so am I inferring correctly that life on earth from the very first collection of single cells and onward through accepted evolution did NOT occur?
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My sense of this is that we have it all wrong in terms of creation and causation, fused as we are to a classical model of causation, basically Newtonian and updated with Al's relativity and all the QM jive with a side order of chaos theory et al.
Reality is a constant, unborn, and uncreated. Forms, matter, fields, and all the rest come and go and collapse and explode in a never ending series of big bangs. Once our universe went bang, evolution was set in motion and proceeded probably much as we currently picture it - even while entropy bubbles away, this incessant drive toward disorder and randomness even as matter cobbles towards complexity. This play of opposites is always manifest in reality.
If I have your thoughts right, then from "what" then DID life on earth come from?
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Where did gravity come from, or energy, or the set point for the speed of light, or the energy potential for a cubit of vacuum space, or the Big Bang, or DNA, or awareness and mind? These are the great questions. Quite naturally we want pat answers which for some of us are mechanistic, the only other option being "God," the thinking goes. I don't believe that a creator "God" is the only option to mechanical materialism.
We'd like to believe that matter "created" everything, even space minus the energy, but this notion runs out of road pretty early on when we look closely. My sense of it is that there are inherent qualities in reality. Perhaps they morph or fall out in new forms with each successive bang, but unborn, eternal qualities seem a part of the fabric of this life, so far as I experience it.
I forgive and correct me if I have interpreted your answers wrong.
I'll always try and answer a honest question directly. The glib and puerile flames, masquerading as acumen, I'll have fun with, which is my weakness.
But I have a question. I assume that you too are a mechanistic materialist, so in that light, how would you differentiate the qualitative diferences between objective functioning and subjective experience? This is a question that is avoided like the plague on this thread, and I'm curious why?
JL
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 15, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
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But I have a question. I assume that you too are a mechanistic materialist, so in that light, how would you differentiate the qualitative diferences between objective functioning and subjective experience? This is a question that is avoided like the plague on this thread, and I'm curious why?
John, I am the first to admit when I am not qualified to speak out on a particular issue
I have never considered your question, hopefully those with better intellects than mine will take up your question
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MissJ
Social climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
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Let's define ...
Definition of Objective and Subjective
Objective is a statement that is completely unbiased. It is not touched by the speaker’s previous experiences or tastes. It is verifiable by looking up facts or performing mathematical calculations.
Subjective is a statement that has been colored by the character of the speaker or writer. It often has a basis in reality, but reflects the perspective through with the speaker views reality. It cannot be verified using concrete facts and figures.
When to Be Objective and Subjective
Objective : it is important to be objective when you are making any kind of a rational decision. It might involve purchasing something or deciding which job offer to take. You should also be objective when you are reading, especially news sources. Being objective when you are meeting and having discussions with new people helps you to keep your concentration focused on your goal, rather than on any emotions your meeting might trigger.
Subjective : can be used when nothing tangible is at stake. When you are watching a movie or reading a book for pleasure, being subjective and getting caught up in the world of the characters makes your experience more enjoyable. If you are discussing any type of art, you have to keep in mind that everyone’s opinions on a particular piece are subjective.
Easy Ways to Remember Objective and Subjective
Objective : sounds like the word object. You should be objective whenever you are discussing an object, something concrete that you can hold or touch. The facts that make up your objective statement should also be concrete, solid objects.
Subjective : is just the opposite. You can’t point to subjective subjects. They are all in your head and your past experiences. Subjective opinions are ephemeral and subject to any number of factors that can range from facts to emotions.
Examples of Objective and Subjective
Objective : scientific facts are objective as are mathematical proofs; essentially anything that can be backed up with solid data.
Subjective : opinions, interpretations, and any type of marketing presentation are all subjective.
I dare say most of us are being subjective in our posts.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 15, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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Let's define ...
Definition of Objective and Subjective
Objective is a statement that is completely unbiased. It is not touched by the speaker’s previous experiences or tastes. It is verifiable by looking up facts or performing mathematical calculations.
The problem here is that for some, "objectivity" is seen as the only authentic truth, superficial as it often is. But in the slavish devotion to remaining "objective" the course of subjects is limited to material, for which we and perform mathamatical calculations (measurements). Is it any wonder that in the quest for maintaining objectivity people impulsively try and colapse reality into managable bits of matter?
Subjective is a statement that has been colored by the character of the speaker or writer. It often has a basis in reality, but reflects the perspective through with the speaker views reality. It cannot be verified using concrete facts and figures.
And so anything that cannot be verified by "concrete facts and figures"
(which are the least concrete things imaginable) must be avoided, which is why any questions about subjectivity or experience gets no play here for fear of people being "wrong."
Then this:
John, I am the first to admit when I am not qualified to speak out on a particular issue
I have never considered your question, hopefully those with better intellects than mine will take up your question
"Qualified" by who? You're qualified because you have experience - there's no more required to take a crack at the question. It's not a trick question. Our fundamental reality is experiential - we all have it. We know no other reality than our subjective, in which objective perspectives find play, but we never in this life escape our subjective bubble.
My question has little to do with intellect. Only willingness to look at your life as it unfolds and to report what you see and how you see it.
JL
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 15, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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That was my initial take on blublockr too, Grug.
Blitzo was looking pretty lean at vedauwoo Sushifest....
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 15, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
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This is a wanker flame and we all know it. Where you betray your "shallow view," as described by many in various lands, is equating "intellectual heft" with the simple parroting of facts and figures belonging to others.
Largo, who's "we"? I would imagine that most of "us" would agree with me that your posts show a second rate intelligence bolstered by bluster and big words. I think that you should start every post with "I'm John Long, damnit!"
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jstan
climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
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Hey guys.
Largo may have been sincere a few thousand posts ago. But now that you are pushing back he is trolling. Laughing at being able to waste your time,
like he is.
Best to picture him as the seemingly kindly voice from the other side of the confessional. Probably doing a crossword puzzle to keep the absurdity from making him laugh out loud. Deep down that guy knows the real scoop on talking snakes.
With that I will turn this thread around right here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7izJggqCoA&feature=g-vrec
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 15, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
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Good one jstan!
It's so easy to sucked in to these threads. I'm done.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 16, 2012 - 12:06am PT
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I'm done. ^^^^
With what?
You haven't done anything in this thread yet except run your mouth trying to make yourself look smart.
You're not .....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oct 16, 2012 - 12:24am PT
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I'm done.
^ ^ ^
Another question avoider
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 16, 2012 - 12:34am PT
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Jstan, I am not seeing where anyone is actually pushing back. They're simply mumbling about me being stupid and not getting it. Pushing back would be answering questions or offering other contrary points of view by way of examples, thought experiments, and so forth. If someone asks me a simple question I always stop clowning around and try and answer honestly.
Meanwhile, Eeyonkee and Malamute circle the drain but duck even addressing a few simple questions:
What is your understanding of raw awareness, as contrasted to ephemeral brain content such as thoughts, feelings, memories, sensations?
And -
What do you suspect is the limitation of the discursive mind, and what do you imagine might lie beyond it which has no relationship whatsoever with beliefs, faith, "God," or imagination?
These are hardly incendiary questions and have little to do with intellect, religion, materialism, first, third, tenth, or even twentieth rate acumen. And I ask these questions honestly.
I was curious on an atheistic take on these interesting subjects but apparently no one has much of anything to say about them. That, is a curious thing.
JL
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