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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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Ya., Anders gets the bridge.
Already looks like an A pressed into an O.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 28, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
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If Mark Twain could say "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated", why can't I have a little fun with BK and HF?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 28, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
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Has an over/under roadway been considered for Murrin Park and the canyon?
A version of this was used to reduce impacts on the Colorado River through Glenwood Canyon for I-70 in Colorado. $$$ for sure but so are the alternatives.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 28, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
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352 signatures on the e-petition now, which added to paper petitions (~ 125), the FaceBook page (113), and the Squamish Climbing 'survey', is getting close to 600 - excluding duplicates and duds. 15 - 20% seem to be from the Squamish area.
I'll refrain from participating in the name game, though.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
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So far there are 120 Squamites that don't want the thing? Maybe I wasn't too far off with my 90-95% for?
Angus Reid better watch out.
And speaking of real estate that's flat and waterfront, how 'bout that Interfor site with a bridge over the water to town?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
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The Squampton Muni should have a four person crew on full time trail construction and maintenance instead of endlessly wattering hanging flower baskets. This in turn would lead to the companies G.F. refers to locating here in bike mecca, thus fullfilling their employees' dreams. Yes, the local muni could take a lesson from Rossland, and one of their projects could be to put the trail in from the Habrich terminal over to meet the goat ridge trail.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
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I suppose a little specialty hiring might be in order.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 28, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
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The Squampton Muni should have a four person crew on full time trail construction and maintenance instead of endlessly wattering hanging flower baskets.
Agreed on that - a little investment in trail creation and maintenance can go a long way. It may not be as dramatic as say a gondola, but over the last 20+ years, hundreds of people have moved to Squamish in part due to the existing recreation. Much of it is dispersed, and needs relatively little in the way of facilities apart from environments to do it in. Cumulatively it's substantial.
Existing uses and users, and their growth potential, are too often overlooked by those seeking usually non-existent magic bullets.
And yes, the terminal on Goat Ridge should really open upper Shannon Creek and Goat Ridge to hiking and mountain biking.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
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Hundreds? That's conservative. And the graph is steepening.
Squamish muni may not have the athleticism found on it's Whistler counterpart but there are some fit, hard working individuals on the staff. Well, one that I know of anyway.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 28, 2012 - 10:05pm PT
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It would be hard to measure just how many have moved to Squamish for its recreational opportunities, and how much other factors e.g. affordable real estate played in their decisions. Plus you'd have to add in those living in Squamish's southern suburbs, such as North and West Vancouver.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 28, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
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Yes, you're right, affordable real estate is a big one. I keep forgetting this is affordable because it seems so damn expensive.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 01:25am PT
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Was the idea ever considered for the gondola base to be somewhere up the forest service road?? What would people think about a location up there? It would have to be a full on bike park to make any money, but it would miss the park, not be as obstructive to the view, and the sightseers would get a bit of a scenic drive off the highway. It would be interesting to know which other alternatives were considered, if any. Seems like on this thread alone we have been able to explore many different ideas & logistics from various opposing opinions from various persons located all over the map. I would like to know the things that the developers considered. I would also like to know their plans for moving water & power up & down from there.
One thing we all need to be aware of is that these guys aren't building a gondola for you to take your bike up Hamish, they aren't building a ski lift Bruce, they are building it to make $$ for themselves. They are going to use some land that you guys own & you are going to get nothing for letting them use it. Actually if their plan doesn't work, just maybe we will all get to be on the hook for the bill for the cleanup. I don't think it's too much to ask for those who care about public land to be able to know the clear intention & details of the proposal as well as making sure the land is acquired in a way that is legal & fair in regards to the park act & any other "laws" we have made to protect it in the first place. It should not be up to us to prove that they are doing something wrong, it should be up to them to be transparent & prove to us that they are using a fair, just process to acquire these lands. If they have nothing to hide it should be no big deal. If the gondola is passed & built in a fair legitimate process which is proven to be the The best use of this land I would consider being more supportive, I just don't feel as though this has been proven yet- by them. The media has not been helpful but in my opinion the developers have not done themselves any favors for trying to backdoor this thing into existence.
I will agree that mountain bikers spend 10 times more money on gear & everything than climbers do. Good for any town having mountain bikers visiting. If this was in an area that could be fully developed for biking with that being a main objective there could maybe, just maybe be a chance that this project will survive more than a few years, it could even be huge. Bikers will stay a few days, spend some $, sightseers will not, they get the photo and move on. The current base station & path are not conducive to this & short of a myriad of trails coming back down to the base through the park it seems unrealistic that any biking will ever occur under the current proposal. The base is not in a good spot for trails to end.
I am opposed to it because of the location, how it is using land which is said to be protected at the highest level to be preserved for future generations in perpetuity or something like that & because I do not believe the land has been acquired in a fair, just, manner.
Also as I've stated up thread before I also think that the business plan itself is unrealistic & a dumb idea in its current state, or at least the little we know about it. You guys look up there today?? Gondola into a jar of milk, way to go guys, great idea.
I also tried to contact the developers via their website & received no reply.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
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I'm also on your side Ryan. I'd much rather the gondola climb up this forested knob between Edith lk and Paul Ridge. I'm well aware bikers aren't the proponents' gravy but I have a little hope they'll end up milking everything they can, including developing the connector trail from that basin over to the goat ridge trail. There are other possibilities for returning closer to the base, such as reversing part of the petgill approach but keeping north on that old logging spur. This would pop you at on the northern slope of the murrin hill, and riding back to your vehicle at the Klahanie would be easy. Or for the more advanced, stay on the goat ridge descent and pin it all the way down into Britannia. Pretty easy to have left a vehicle there but even the worst case scenerio would see the fittest rider get elected to go retrieve the car at the Klahanie. Small price to pay for a six or seven hour ride in beautiful B.C.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 29, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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Bottom line however is if the gondola dosn't go there, it aint going anywhere.
There's no evidence that the proponents have truly considered alternatives outside the Park(s), as is required by government policy.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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My reasoning behind the backwoods option idea was one of the gondola actually being built & dedicated to recreational purposes (e.g. mountain bike park) as their main M.O. Not with sightseeing/tourist pocket picking as the main objective as the current proposal has planned. I actually think it would be cool if tucked away somewhere up around the corner we had a full on bike park, a legitimate, profitable recreational draw. I know many who would feel the same. I am not a biker anymore but i work up in Whis & have seen the impact that the bike park there has had on summer business. It is a good thing. The hangup of the bike park there is that it must dance around winter operations, as well it deals with a slightly higher elevation so it is often not in prime conditions until mid june. It is second fiddle to skiing there, and always will be. Squamish has many advantages in this department & could probably have an extended season that would draw many people to the area, these people would stay in town, spend money @ shops, restaurants & hotels. Squamish could have biking as it's #1 recreational tourist draw, and focus on it. The town could really get behind it & market it to the world. Entire families go DH biking together, it is a great beginner sport. The 100 or so cloudy days we will probably see from now to thanksgiving wouldn't be total revenue killers for the gondy if it was a bike park as people would still go up there and bike. It would not have to be on the side of the highway because it would actually have a purpose, people would have a reason to go there again & again. It would not have to be a tourist vortex that requires a roadside location to scrape up revenue. It would be something that our town could be proud of, who is going to be proud of this carnival ride with the 1km loop trail up top?? Not me, that's for sure. Embarrassed would be a more likely term that i'm sure many of us would realize over time when we realized someone put wool over our eyes and their thumb up our ass.
Do we really want to be the town that relies on a goofy sightseeing gondola to "save" us?? So sad that the developers did not see(or care to see) the potential value in possible recreational resources & instead took a stab @ the apparent "easy money". Frikkin' vultures IMO, sniff out the limping carcass on the side of the highway rather than hunt down your own food.
The current proposal would not work for a bike park, which is a shame. I'm sure that bike trails could be built up there & that biking could be a "possibility" but never to a level that it would be a destination for people from all over NA to come on their annual family bike trip. The base area simply could not support it. I would not support it, there just isn't enough space there. This thing is being designed for one time visits, in & out. I think that if this gondola is built at the gravel pit that tourists will stop & fork over some cash, then get back in their busses or cars & carry on, not the kind of operation that is conducive for people staying awhile. Who wants to stay in Squamish for a few days to go do daily laps on the sightseeing gondola?? Seriously?? I think we all know the answer to that one.
This current proposal lacks creativity, foresight, originality, respect for the park & it's users. Not to mention it does nothing for the downtown of Squamish except pose a risk to it's taxpayers because of it's murky business plan, lack of due process, & shortage of details.
Oh, what's that? There is no left turn lane in or out of the gravel pit. The highway would likely need to be widened at that spot with proper turning lanes- Unless it is just assumed that everyone stopping there would be on the way to Whistler. Does anyone know who would need to be jerked off to make the road wider?? Would it be the ministry of highways or would it be someone more local?? Either way i'm sure it won't be a major issue for these guys to figure out. Oh, wait a sec...Who pays for highway improvements?? Is it taxpayers?? Hmmmmmmmm. Another detail.....
I know it's a little late in the game here to be proposing alternatives but it seems to be somewhat productive in this debate to consider other options & things that may actually be beneficial to Squamish. I have learned a lot from this thread from others stories, ideas & opinions. Maybe if this proposal gets denied(fingers crossed) these guys will still be looking to throw some cash around & might need some new ideas.
edit: Just saw your post Hamish, & yes, shuttles and whatnot aside the type of biking that you propose would be great, but likely not be enough to draw people when you could be doing multiple laps up the road & getting 20,000' feet of vertical in a day without even having a chain on your bike. However, with some thought & biking as the main objective there are many possibilities for something like the Whistler park to be a reality at Squamish.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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I realize my biking ideas don't embrace heavy downhill bikes doing laps all day long, they have that in Whistler. My perfect storm uses the tourist lift to access multi-hour adventures; not for everyone I'm sure, but the numbers are increasing all the time.
I know you're down on the limited size of the gravel pit but don't you think all that land between the pit and Shannon Falls is ripe for expansion? Shannon Falls is maxed out already so the next step is a D-9.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 29, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
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Did the municipality of Squamish give any tax incentives to the developers of the gondola?
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Squamish Climber
Trad climber
Shangri-La
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May 29, 2012 - 06:41pm PT
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Sea to Sky Gondola Project passes 3rd Reading with Squamish-Lillooet Regional District:
The Chief posted the news this afternoon:
Proponents of the Sea to Sky Gondola project received more good news from the Squamish-Lillooet Regional District (SLRD) board table on Monday (May 28) in Pemberton, where the bylaw and OCP amendments for Electoral Area D were given third reading.
Board members heard results of the public hearing in mid-April and were told that most attendees were supportive, while many opposed had misconceptions about the project — that the gondola would land on the Stawamus Chief, for example — or had frustration over the Province's process of reclassifying of provincial park land.
So it looks like once the province passes the park reclassification the SLRD will give final approval. That could happen as early as June/July.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 29, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
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A minor step in the process, and not unexpected. The key remaining step is the province issuing a park use permit, in effect a contract between it and the proponent. Until that happens, there's no legal obligation.
Board members heard results of the public hearing in mid-April and were told that most attendees were supportive, while many opposed had misconceptions about the project — that the gondola would land on the Stawamus Chief, for example — or had frustration over the Province's process of reclassifying of provincial park land.
An absurd canard which some have suggested, with little basis. FOSC has certainly never said any such thing. Amusingly, one gondola supporter, a councillor from Whistler at that, claimed that: "The proponent's gondola lift will travel over/across Shannon Falls Park (not Stawamus Chief Park as the "No side" likes to suggest)."
http://www.vancouversun.com/Squamish+area+residents+largely+support+proposed+gondola/6657346/story.html
Which would greatly surprise the government, B.C. Parks, and many others - the legislation removes land from Stawamus Chief Provincial Park, and you'd think they'd know what they were doing.
It's also disingenuous to suggest that park land is being "reclassified", although about 25 of those at the meeting did express concerns about the province's actions. All part of the disinformation campaign, I suppose.
No doubt there are a few opponents of the gondola, or the process, who aren't perfectly clear on everything. So are some supporters. All part of democracy.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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May 29, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
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"Progress Can't Wait" John Rosholt,1998ish.
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