Occupy Wall Street Thread Reposted

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Bob D'A

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Oct 16, 2011 - 11:44pm PT

A poll from CNN....Which protest movement do you favor more, Occupy Wall Street or the tea party?

Occupy
70%
253484
Tea party
30%
110300

Teabaggers are going south...quickly.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 16, 2011 - 11:47pm PT

Do you vote Qball? Did you go to a public school? Do you drive on public highways? Have you gone to a publicly supported hospital? Have you ever called the police or the fire department? Do you like breathing clean air and drinking clean water?

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 16, 2011 - 11:48pm PT

So if you know that there is a problem, identified the 500 of them, what is the next step?

Making sweeping generalizing laws that affect the other 360million people isn't going to solve THAT problem.

When was the US functioning well, I mean, when was the middle class growing and the USA a place to build your dreams?

Now what conditions were in place for that to happen?

What conditions created the disparity today? What do you do to fix that?

It surely isn't arguing about changing taxes on the 99% a few percent. You know that death and estate taxes don't affect those 500 families.

And if you did manage to lobby and use the government to take the wealth from them and spread it around, how do you know it won't happen again?

What is it in the system that is creating the problem?
Rokjox says it is the death tax.

Q-ball, taking money from Americans won't make me happy. Not sure where you got that from.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 16, 2011 - 11:50pm PT

When was the US functioning well, I mean, when was the middle class growing and the USA a place to build your dreams?

Taxes were higher when things were going well in America. At least taxes were higher for the wealthy. So were estate taxes.

We supported public education. We supported systems like social security and medicare.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 16, 2011 - 11:51pm PT

You know that death and estate taxes don't affect those 500 families.

You aren't making any sense. So they don't die? They don't pay estate taxes? Why.. because they found loopholes? So the way forward would seem to be to close the loopholes. Not do away with the tax.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:02am PT

Rok, you can gift $15,000 free of taxes to individuals per year in your country. Trust funds work well too, but I last looked into them in Canada, so I'm confusing it with the US rules. I agree with you that there are so many ways to spread it around and not get taxed on it. That's why Im wondering why adding another law or trail in the corn maze is going to slow down the rich who are flying the helicopters? These laws have been in place except for the past few years, and still there are 500 who managed to get around them and own 50% of the wealth (apparently).

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:04am PT

Tooth, taxes on estates have been going down while the disparity between the wealthy and everyone else has been growing.

Yes, they have gamed the system, but what solutions do you have?

Q- Ball

Mountain climber

where the wind always blows

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:05am PT

Hey Roxjox,

Why do you care about my knowledge? I know you fail, Some day you will get up that hill!!!

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:07am PT

I haven't identified the cause of the problems yet. All we know are the problems on this thread apparently.

If we are saying the cause of the problem is dads giving their sons money, then yes, estate or death taxes would slow that down. But dads give their sons money in every country around the world. Heck, they do it in Canada. But the spread is getting wider much faster in the US don't you think?

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:08am PT

In part because estate taxes are going down here.

Edit: Another part of the problem is things like property taxes being frozen. That came about in an effort to help old people on fixed incomes keep their homes, but it had unintended consequences. It also allowed businesses to keep their property taxes low, making it much more difficult for new businesses to compete. Since our political system is corrupt by money, it may not have been an unintended consequence.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:12am PT

What if the problem isn't dad's starting a company and passing it on where it continues to grow?

What if it is stemming from individuals having access to tax bases and the strings that run those systems?

I think the US situation is bigger than one type of tax being at 0% for one year.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:16am PT

I agree that it is bigger then that one tax, but that is part of the problem. See my edit above.

There are other problems, such as the loosening of rules about media which undermined the fair and balanced intentions of the regulations.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:18am PT

Part of the solution may be campaign finance reform.

But the problems really are deeper then that. I believe that they are spiritual. I don't think that there is anyway to legislate that.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:21am PT

Have you gone to a publicly supported hospital?

ALL hospitals are publically supported. Even the private ones through favored tax treatment.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:21am PT

That's funny John. I don't know the history on the media thing, but I just heard that Fox news wasnt' allowed into Canada this year because we apparently don't think they are fair and balanced enough!

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:22am PT

I admire the Canadians wisdom.

..

I knew that Ken. I don't think Qball has really thought out his position. That he has never used public money.

tooth

Trad climber

B.C.

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:27am PT

If I use a hospital, or have the potential to use the hospital as much or more than anyone else, should I be taxed more than someone else for it?

What about roads? Your only legal way to tax for roads is through gas taxes, representation, etc.

If that is ok, what about income taxes? Following the same logic, shouldn't they be flat taxes as well? I mean, the millionaire doesn't have to pay more for gas at the pump because he has more money! Should he pay a higher percentage of his income for senator's salaries or for millitary actions?

Here in Canada Indians pay less for their gas if they buy it on reserves.

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Oct 17, 2011 - 12:31am PT

income tax should be progressive. A flat tax is actually regressive. The poorer you are, the more it hurts or becomes impossible to pay.

A graduated tax is graduated for everyone.

Your first 10 grand is taxed at one rate.
your second 10 grand is taxed at a higher rate.
On up.

that happens for everyone.