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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 18, 2011 - 12:34am PT
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I woke up to the good news this morning that the U.S. military has finally been called in to use our nuclear intelligence gathering technology to establish just how much and what kinds of radiation is being leaked and how far. They are also providing overhead photos of the plant so we can finally know which reactors are in what degree of trouble. Accurate knowledge is always the basis of effective action.
I think the most frustrating aspect of life in Japan for any western person is the difficulty of communication and the lack of detailed information. This goes way beyond language difficulties which are already considerable, to much deeper issues of the culture.
I recently spent 20 minutes on Kadena Air Base trying to find out if the reason I couldn't use my credit card at the gas pump. The possibilities were my card not being accepted or the whole military credit card system being down. Both are frequent occurrences over here and a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
Instead, the woman at the kiosk apologized profusely, went round and round in circles with verbal platitudes and told me nothing. Eventually she called a young guy who spoke better English and he went through the same routine. Finally, he got the manager of the whole complex to talk to me.
When I explained all I wanted was a simple answer to save the price of a phone call to the U.S. that evening, he asked the kid who told him right away that my card had been refused. He then spent another five minutes explaining to the kid with instructions to tell the woman, that it isn't good enough to just apologize to Americans, you have to give them an explanation of what is wrong and if possible why. Obviously he got to be the manager because he understands western culture.
Magnify these cross cultural communication problems by the thousands and you have an idea of the difficulties of understanding the current reactor problem. Meanwhile, thanks to American technology we will finally be getting some straight forward answers!
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Mar 18, 2011 - 12:35am PT
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from a colleague there:
"Thank you so much for your sincere messages.
We are very much encouraged by your words.
Not just Sendai, many other places in Japan were damaged,
and the shortage of the electric power forces
many people in Eastern part of Japan a lot of difficulties.
I do hope everyone's safe and relief.
Earthquake was terrible, but the true disaster was brought
by Tsunami. My house locates about 20km from the coast
and the Tsunami comes up to ~10km line from the coast
as far as I saw in the satellite image.
It was never imagined.
The area attacked by Tsunami includes the coast we usually
go in summer, Sendai airport, and some shopping centers
we often visit. Ishinomaki, an area that was terribly damaged,
we enjoyed driving, hot spring, nice seafood just two weeks ago...
When the quake happened on Friday (just after the Subaru proposal
deadline!) I was in my office at the 8th floor
of our building. Some big shake begins, and I came out from my office
to the elevator lobby. The terrible big shaking then begins and
lasted more than a few minuets. Within a minuet or so, I cannot
stand any more. All the big shelves or lockers start sliding....
That was of course the biggest earthquake I have experienced.
After evacuated from the building and it seemed to settled for a while,
I walked down the hill (Aobayama), and in two hours, I come back
home to see, my family are safe there.
We felt more than 100 small or middle quakes since then!
Monday morning some of us come back to the university
to see the offices.....it was....just terrible.
University classes will be closed until the end of April
and we talk students to leave Sendai, if possible,
to their family places.
The electricity comes back to my house 4 days after the quake,
so it is getting better.
But still at many places lifeline (water, gas) has not come back yet.
We are now facing the problem of the shortage of
the food and other daily things
(but this should be better anyway within a few weeks, I suppose)
and the nuclear plants accidents (just 100 km from Sendai).
Finally, thank you so much again for your kind message.
We are alive, and we'll be back!"
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 18, 2011 - 01:42am PT
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"Japan will be the victor without doubt."
They already lost.
They can only submit to nature.
No mortal being can overpower nature ......
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 18, 2011 - 01:43am PT
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U.S. nuclear officials suspect Japanese plant has a dire breach
A leak in a spent fuel pool at the Fukushima nuclear plant would be an unprecedented problem with no clear remedy, experts say.
By Ralph Vartabedian, Barbara Demick and Laura King, Los Angeles Times
March 18, 2011
Reporting from Los Angeles, Kesennuma, Japan, and
U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping.
That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,1937413,full.story
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:18am PT
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Not being alarmist just sharing good information that everyone can use now and in the future . . .
It's times like these that we think about what we should do and what we should have done. We can all prepare our families and friends for events that possibly will happen now and in the future. Everyone needs to have a Family Disaster Plan. Turns out we should have KI tablets in our emergency home kits as well. Well now we know.
Everyone is thinking about these things now, and getting KI tablets and other radiation emergency equipment is hard to do right now. Most companies specializing in these items are getting slammed really hard and out of stock.
Found a good article on the emergency alternatives to KI:
Plan "B" for anyone caught without Potassium Iodide (KI) tablets in a nuclear emergency...
http://www.ki4u.com/plan_b.htm
http://www.ki4u.com/illwind.htm
http://www.ki4u.com/products1.php
I have a CD V-700 Geiger Counter (reads in mR/hr = milli-Roentgens per hour). It reads beta and gamma decay, not alpha. I have done a survey in my classroom, outside along the exterior walls of the classroom, and in my house and around the exterior of my house. I did these surveys 2 days ago (3-15) and again today (3-17). All normal background levels of radiation as expected (0.0 - 0.05 mR/hr). I'm curious if I will be able to detect that coming in from Japan. I will resurvey tomorrow (3-18) and again on Monday at school (3-21). I'll survey over the weekend at home. Very interested to see if I will pick-up additional radiation levels beyond the normal background level. We'll see.
Survey Meter Readings:
0- 200 cpm/ 0.0 - 0.05 mR/hr = Background readings
(My surveys have all been normal background readings so far)
200 - 400 cpm/ 0.05 - 0.1 mR/hr = Suspect contamination
> 400 cpm/ > 0.1 mR/hr = Contamination
Dose Rate (conversions):
1.0 mR/hr = 0.01mSv/hr
also
100 Rem = 1.0 Sv (Sievert)
Anyone else doing geiger surveys or thinking about it?
Forecast for Plume's Path Is a Function of Wind and Weather
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html?ref=science
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pic and missing my mama.
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:25am PT
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For christ sake we blew up atomic bomb in the Nevada desert and people still go there to climb and gamble! This is not the end of the world.
AFS
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:27am PT
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It's called curiosity and science. I want to know. I know it will be very low levels, but I want to know if it is detectable by my CD V-700 geiger counter. We'll see.
Who said it was the end of the world?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:31am PT
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Let us know if you find any arks with it. Or Chicken Little.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:33am PT
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It's coming ... some kind of end
One should hurry and sit in cave and do special yoga one breath and heartbeat per week.
When it's all over one should reappear and continue on ......
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:35am PT
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Does drinking too much beer and watching hockey make Canadians have an extreme lack of curiosity?
I want to know the answer to that question also.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:39am PT
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Klimmer, you have some radical beliefs, plus you are a bit over the top at times and this pushes peoples buttons. It has nothing to do with your curiosity level, and more to do with what appears to many to be a chicken little approach.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:45am PT
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It's impossible not to make fun of such a silly as klimmer.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:45am PT
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a few years ago a group of us from NASA flew over to Tokyo for meetings in Yokohama and Tskuba with our NASDA counterparts regarding the big research centrifuge that was being designed and built by the Japanese for the International Space Station Centrifuge Accommodation Module CAM. This was their barter contribution for hitching space shuttle rides for their lab elements. We were hosted in a fancy hotel where everything was computerized, the door, the curtains, even the shower, the toilet, and the bed. In the morning we took the train and then walked to the offices for meetings. There was a long table where we American engineers sat on one side facing our Japanese counterparts on the other side; all of us sitting up straight in our best suits. Our Station Struc and Mech Manager hyper-genius Hungarian drinking buddy and pool shark leader, very politely presented our long list of challenges as to why their design would not work; and in fact could destroy the station with vibration. All day the polite technical negotiations proceeded; particularly for the incredibly complex hub which had to rotate smoothly while passing water, waste water, power, ventilation and data for the multiple animal cages; with moving counterweights to maintain balance as the animals moved around. Then in the evenings we were treated to big pizza and kereoke parties until a reasonable hour. Then our Hungarian tour guide would lead us on a merry chase across the nightclub scene, flirting with girls and playing pool until an unreasonable hour. First thing in the morning we would all again be sitting up straight in our suits and going over the tangle of technical challenges. We spent the weekends exploring the coastal towns and offshore islands. The Japanese listened very politely and intelligently to all the issues, but never admitted to the simple fact that their design wasn't going to work. We were then given a grand tour of their station modules being prepared in Tskuba. One of my friends wound up going back there for the next several years for continued similar meetings. Eventually the CAM was canceled 'for lack of funds'. The Japanese lab modules are now upstairs attached to station. I never heard how they paid for the elevator ride...
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:59am PT
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i do not necessarily agree with everything Klimmer says, but do not consider him silly for looking around beyond the glass box of conventional wisdom
i appreciate much of the information he provides; whether or not it is real or disinformation
(patterns of disinformation reveal shadows of the realities being obscured)
Radiation Network
http://www.radiationnetwork.com
Welcome to RadiationNetwork.com, home of the National Radiation Map, depicting environmental radiation levels across the USA, updated in real time every minute. This is the first web site where the average citizen (or anyone in the world) can see what radiation levels are anywhere in the USA
Swedish Government: Radiation To Cover Entire Northern Hemisphere
http://www.prisonplanet.com
Suggesting that levels of radiation leaks from the stricken Fukushima plant are being grossly underreported by Japanese authorities, a Swedish government agency told Reuters today that not only will the radiation reach North America, but it will subsequently cover the entire northern hemisphere.
well, i grew up water-skiing the columbia river just down stream of hanford, and me and my many cousins are all still around
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 18, 2011 - 03:13am PT
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Thanks for those sites, I will definitely "monitor" them.
This isn't good . . .
U.S. nuclear officials suspect Japanese plant has a dire breach
Source: Ralph Vartabedian, Barbara Demick and Laura King, Los Angeles Times March 18, 2011
Reporting from Los Angeles, Kesennuma, Japan, and—
U.S. government nuclear experts believe a spent fuel pool at Japan's crippled Fukushima reactor complex has a breach in the wall or floor, a situation that creates a major obstacle to refilling the pool with cooling water and keeping dangerous levels of radiation from escaping.
That assessment by U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials is based on the sequence of events since the earthquake and information provided by key American contractors who were in the plant at the time, said government officials familiar with the evaluation. It was compelling evidence, they said, that the wall of the No. 4 reactor pool has a significant hole or crack.
snip
A breach in the pool would leave engineers with a problem that has no precedent or ready-made solution, said Edwin Lyman, a physicist with the Union of Concerned Scientists.
"My intuition is that this is a terrible situation and it is only going to get worse," he said. "There may not be any way to deal with it."
more
Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-wrapup-20110318,0,2262753.story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4776437
Stzzo,
Not luck. I was using good reliable and trustworthy sources that I know were not, and are not lying, and were not, and are not candy coating things.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 18, 2011 - 03:17am PT
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I understand all of that Riley, but sometimes a persons approach makes them difficult to listen to, no matter how right they may be. I have a lot of beliefs that are much different then most folks, ( closer in line with Werners, but not the same ) and hollering about them doesn't work. You can't force people to listen. They will just get more stubborn and defensive. In emergencies, if someone is freaking out, then occasionally something like a slap will get their attention long enough to calm them down, but slapping people all the time just doesn't work. klimmer isn't necessarily slapping people with how loud he is, just how forceful he can be, plus how different some of his beliefs are. You on the other hand slap folks with your tone, but thats another story and I think that you are aware of it.
Here is one belief I have that I bet most folks wont ascribe to, and would make them whig a bit if I tried to post every other post about it. I believe that one of the causes of natural disasters is a build up of karma. Certain kinds of karma create different kinds of disasters. This disaster with the nuclear reactors I believe ties into the hubris, pride and attitudes of superiority that the Japanese have as a nation. Plus Their unwillingness to admit to needing help. The other night I was meditating and praying and realized that one thing that would ameliorate this disaster is if the Japanese would ask for help. This doesn't mean that everything will just immediately go back to being hunky dory. But it does mean there is a chance to pull it back from the brink.
This belief is quite different then most folks and I have found that it doesn't do any good to push it on people.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 03:18am PT
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Sven U. Grenander JPL
The reason why Potassium Iodine is so well known is that most cancers don't have a clear cause, you can't tell what radiation hit triggered them. Thyroid cancer on the other hand is easily traced to Iodine 131 which is concentrated by your thyroid. Since you can prevent the accumulation by filling your thyroid with stable Iodine it is thought of as a preventative even though it only helps the thyroid.
Live Radiation Monitoring from West LA on USTREAM: .
http://www.ustream.tv
Live Radiation Monitoring from West LA @ USTREAM: . |
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 18, 2011 - 03:46am PT
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i agree with John Moosie that Karma is involved
however i think there are other forces in play beyond that and beyond geological and meteorological 'natural events'
i was privately told years ago by a black programs insider that they had figured out how to create these sorts of natural appearing events as depopulation measures. i was also told the general sequence of planned deployment. so far a lot of things are playing out just the way he indicated
there is a war going on here; and it is not about something the popular media is talking about
don't make the mistake of assuming you know everything or that we are powerless to change the future
it isn't over until it's over
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