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WBraun
climber
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Jul 17, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
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The 9/11 Commission team ....
Philip Zelikow served on Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, and was part of the Bush/Cheney transition team.
While not officially part of the Commission, as the chief of staff, he wielded more power than any of the ten figure-heads.
Kean Commission member Max Cleland dropped out of the proceedings in December 2003, saying "Bush is scamming America" and that he didn't want to participate in a cover-up by the Commission of what the government knew about 9/11 in advance.
(Off the record he has since said the Bush administration knew the attacks were coming.) This also got near-zero press coverage.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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Hey thanx, Adam... I didn't know some [most] of that.
And yes, you are an ass, for speculating what I would do and how I would think after reading what you wrote.
Funny, through, DWH is not a high-rise, so the argument is kind of pointless. I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to find out how the construction of the DWH compares to high-rise buildings, but since it a semi-submersible offshore rig, I doubt there is a lot of commonalities.
Also: "After burning for approximately 36 hours, Deepwater Horizon sank on 22 April 2010."
That's 3 days of burning, I presume oil, before it weakened the structure enough to sink.
OK, here is something for you, the "Believers."
There are many pieces of evidence that are coming to light that fuel the idea that we were not told anything close to the truth about what happened. It is because of this type of evidence that I (and other "truthers") feel that something very important happened on that day, and that the real truth is being covered up daily.
To note, here's a few choice videos. Together, you can spend a short 15-30 minutes looking at things that will make you scratch your head.
I admit, there are certainly lots of whacky videos and "evidence" that you can find on the Web fueling the Conspiracy "Theory." However, when you look at the clips I show below, these are taken from live news feeds the morning of the disaster. Live newscasters in the field.
To start, watch the first couple of minutes of this short clip, titled "What Dan Rather would rather you not see." Very interesting live news coverage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0eC3uns3pA
And take a look at this short film on eyewitnesses, including newscasters, talking about the explosions they heard/saw in the WTC towers. This includes the authorities evacuating the buildings because they found explosive devices:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw
And lastly, watch the first 10-20 minutes of this very well put together Web-feature, In Plane Sight. This starts with a very solid review of the Pentagon hit:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2361717427531377078#
If "Believers' watch any of these videos, I'll be surprised (y'all already have your mind set). But if you do, I'd like to hear your response to the solid evidence that is presented in these clips.
And, none of this stuff is being debunked because...well, Believers don't acknowledge that any of this stuff exists. Funny how that is...
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 17, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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JR,
The two articles I linked explain everything adequately with no need to rely on mysterious factors.
You obviously won't accept anything that doesn't fit with your truther conspiracy scenario; you just look for anything or mold anything to fit the dogma and dismiss out-of-hand everything else. Not much difference between the way you approach 9/11 and the way a creationist/ID proponent approaches evolution.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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Haha, Jolly, don't confuse the thin layer of concrete on the floors of the WTC(and no doubt the Madrid building as well) with the massive concrete reinforced steel 17'th floor of the Madrid building. That's why they call it a 'technical' floor. It was unlike the regular floors that collapsed above it.
Tell me what floors of the WTC towers were firewall floors?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
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Mono,
In case you missed my links above, here is the one about the explosives in the towers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw
It's short, go ahead and take a look. All live news coverage.
What ye say to this? NYPD evacuating the buildings due to secondary devices, explosions in the basements, and so on.
All the fancy math symbols and so forth not needed when you have the power of explosives to get things rockin'.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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K-man, glad you recognize that once you get it 'rockin' there's no stopping it. Most Truthers would disagree and say you need explosives to keep it going.
Jolly, still waiting to know which floors of the WTC were firewall floors.
That's got to be pretty easy to look up.
And don't confuse floors for mechanical equipment with firewall/strength floors.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
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Mono, you completely ignored the question about what you think about the reports of the explosions in the clip.
Well??
Can't reconcile the multiple reports of large explosions, can you.
But at least you can try, no?
Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that I "recognize that once you get it 'rockin' there's no stopping it."
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:04pm PT
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Sorry K-man, there were lots of noise and chaos that day. You know, transformers exploding, pieces of the building falling before the collapse.
Do you have any audio of explosions capable of throwing massive steel girders hundreds of yards? Or even audio of explosives going off at each floor collapse?
And good, you are the traditional truther who thinks explosives are needed all thru the core to keep it going.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
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Opening of the clip has audio of a large explosion. My guess, you did not watch it. Too bad.
And that's one heck of a fire if it can throw debris! Funny how you do not see that in the Madrid clip...no pulverized building either.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:08pm PT
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That's the power of a gravitational collapse K-man.
So you think there were explosives that could throw some of the exterior columns hundreds of yards? And these explosives would be in the core right?
Got any audio of those?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
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Dude, that is not the building collapsing. Get real.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:11pm PT
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Then why is it important?
Haha k-man, some loud sounds after the collapse is proof of CD.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:12pm PT
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You know I just can't get over all the really hot fires because of the aviation fuel. Man, it was hot enough to weaken steel and perhaps even melt it (dripping sarcasm). At least that is what we have been told . . .
Yet people looked out the holes of the impacts. Where were the raging fires burning out of control? And since when can aviation fuel ever melt steel? Yet we saw the dripping steel prior to the collapse, right? Oh, you mean the thermite/thermate that lit off a little too soon.
Bummer, when an inside job doesn't go exactly as planned and everyone is now figuring out the facade.
Hate it when that happens.
Video: Woman waving from hole in WTC tower after impact but obviously before the collapse.
http://thewebfairy.com/911/edna/2seconds.htm
WOMAN WAVING FROM WTC NORTH TOWER IMPACT HOLE (video discussion)
http://webfairy.org/edna/liberty.htm
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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I pointed out several flaws in your argument and apparently you don't want to address them becuase of the awareness of your fallacies.
And don't pull the "I am trying to fit everything in to my mold" BS.
You are confusing flaws with unanswered/unanswerable questions. There will never be absolute proof. Even if every joist, beam, and clip were filmed and the temperature of every cubic centimeter measured, I suspect you would decry them as forgeries.
The evidence that is out there explains how the buildings were brought down without relying on mystery explosions or shadowy conspiracies or the invisible hand of god.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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OK, I capitulate. The NYPD doesn't know the difference between transformers blowing and secondary devices. They are idiots, like me I guess.
"We have reports of a secondary device, clear out."
Boy, what whimps.
[Tounge firmly in cheek. Those were some very courageous men.]
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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funny k-man. A loud sound after the collapse is sign of a secondary explosives. Could have just been some debris falling from one of the nearby buildings.
Do you think the NYPD needed to be silenced.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
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Then why is it [the explosion] important [if it's not the building falling]?
Mono, are you OK?
[edit: we have no reference as to what state the buildings were in in the opening clip. But, that is the sound of a large explosion.
Regardless, there are MANY other eyewitness reports of explosions in the clip, so why deny the fact that there were explosions.]
OK, this is stupid, I should be climbing.
Have fun y'all.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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mono -- "Could have just been ..."
Making wild guesses again to support your theory ....
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 17, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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So K-man how many more buildings were wired for explosives?
Or do you think these loud noises were explosives going off in the rubble?
The conspiracy gets larger and larger (and sillier)
And Warner, it's a wild guess to assume all loud noises are explosives.
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