Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
|
Largo: The other thing is that mindfulness (mostly) is the art of following body sensations, . . .
Beautiful. All of life is like that, and you would think that climbers get that. But here, in this thread, they don’t seem to. They are all about the thing, the measurement, the entity. WTF happened to the experience? . . . to the wild mountain man of being inundated in nature, full force, fired point blank?
Institutionalization, socialization, and simply being in *this* world has anesthetized us to a soulless living. We are not dead, but we are not connected. We are objective, number oriented, practical, sensible beings. Whatever the hell that means.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
|
^^^^^^
And there YOU are.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2016 - 09:19pm PT
|
Largo: The other thing is that mindfulness (mostly) is the art of following body sensations, . . .
Beautiful. All of life is like that, and you would think that climbers get that. But here, in this thread, they don’t seem to.
Apparently, planning and execution are too distracting. So we should go through life on autopilot, willfully adrift as we effortlessly navigate those dimensions of consciousness you champion.
I like it.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 25, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
|
Belief Systems Drive Global Events
“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:16-17)
In the broadest sense, there are only two belief systems: theism and naturalism. One believes in supernatural influence on the affairs of men and as the foundation of purpose and order, the other does not. The vast majority of the world is theistic (though not creationist) in its worldview. Only the “civilized world” is arrogant enough to consciously exclude the supernatural from its thinking. But this is the key: “For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he” (Proverbs 23:7). This is why we are clearly told, “Keep thy heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life” (Proverbs 4:23).
Underlying all, of course, is the great Adversary, who seeks to draw the worship of all men to himself and replace all “gods” as the god of this world. Satan is driven, like “a roaring lion,” to devour all who oppose him (1 Peter 5:8). The real war is a spiritual one (Ephesians 6:12-13). President George W. Bush was correct when he insisted that the campaign against modern terrorism will be “unlike any other we have ever seen.” It will be worldwide in scope, transcultural in impact, and years in the execution.
Will terrorists be eliminated and evil conquered? Not until Jesus Christ sets up His millennial reign. But we can “overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21), and we can “reign in life” (Romans 5:17). Freedom is administered through truth (John 8:32, 36), and Satan, when resisted in “the faith” (1 Peter 5:9), will “flee” (James 4:7). HMM III
http://www.icr.org/article/belief-systems-drive-global-events/
James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
The Right Keys
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
James 3:17
Recommended Reading: James 3:13-18
Everywhere you turn in God’s creation you see His genius. Take the relationship between music and math. Music is impossible without the beautiful and symmetric numerical systems woven into the universe. For example, when you hit Middle C on a piano, it produces a frequency of 262 Hertz, which means that 262 pockets of higher air pressure hit your ear every second. If you play Middle G at the same time, you hear harmony because the wave patterns fit each other. Hit F-sharp and the sounds clash, resulting in discord.
A discord in music may sound interesting for a moment, but we seldom want an entire song that way. The same is true in life. We encounter moments of discord in our relationships, but we need to move beyond them for Christ’s sake and live in harmony. We need to hit the right keys—and James gives them to us in chapter 3: purity, peacefulness, gentleness, submissiveness, fullness of mercy, impartiality, and sincerity. This brings stability to our marriages, homes, and churches. It brings greater joy to our own hearts.
Which key do you need to strike today?
In my heart there rings a melody, there rings a melody of Heaven’s harmony… there rings a melody of love.
Elton M. Roth in the hymn “I Have a Song That Jesus Gave Me”
...God is like an iceberg, there is more to Him than you can see!
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 11:03am PT
|
Blessed! Precious Is Our Future / www.davidjeremiah.org
Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!
Revelation 5:13
The Great Tribulation is described in Revelation 6-18, but the two prior chapters (Revelation 4 and 5) describe a celebration in heaven that will occur just before the outbreak of the Tribulation. Why celebrate the onset of Tribulation? Because the Tribulation will set the stage for our Lord’s return. At long last, earth’s wrongs will be righted. The final chapters of world history will play out, ushering in a glorious eternity, described in the last two chapters of the Bible. So heaven celebrated in advance.
Recommended Reading: Revelation 5
There’s a lesson in that. Sometimes when we look at our world, we see tribulation and distress. The immediate future seems ominous. But the God of today controls tomorrow; and the day beyond tomorrow is the gateway to eternity.
For the Christian, our future is just as bright as the golden glow of the Celestial City. It’s just as refreshing as the Crystal River. It’s just as exciting as an angelic concert, and just as fulfilling as answered prayer. God has blessed us with the assurance of a precious future, so let’s be forward-thinking optimists. Let’s get excited about what’s ahead and about Who’s in charge.
Regardless of what happens in this life…life in Christ has a happy ending. Nothing in earth, heaven, or hell can ever take that away...
...Heaven will be brighter and God's praise louder with you there!
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
|
We are having some cross contamination between the Mind thread and this one, which is about Religion vs. Science thread, and its main themes are whether or not God created the Earth, was there a great flood, and although we haven't touched on it yet, we could discuss Jonah living in the intestines of a whale.
I quit posting on the Mind thread. I did for a while, when this one moved a few pages back, but it isn't really my cup of tea. Others have well thought out opinions on that thread, and my position, as a science type, just pisses them off. Nothing good ever comes from poking Largo or MikeL or PSP. Nothing.
Plus, I'm not a meditator. They've done it for years. So I really don't feel like I should pass judgement on that matter. While I feel that it is apparent that the brain is an organ that governs objective functioning, among other duties, it will just get shouted down over there. So I'm not that interested in it anymore.
So you guys go back to the Mind thread, which is doing fine apparently. Leave this one to the Christians and the Paleontologists.
The big conflict concerning science and religion has to do with the creation of the Earth. That is something that I've studied for almost 30 years, 50 hours a week, without a break. I've listened to VERY religious family members discuss evolution, and it is oh so pathetic. However, God as the creator is central to most religions.
Mind is a tricky subject even for neuroscientists. The age of the Earth is not a tricky subject. Not one teeny little bit. All of the evidence points to an Earth history that directly conflicts with the account in Genesis. There is no internal conflict within science. The evidence is utterly blatant. It isn't even close. Since Abrahamic religions consider God the creator of all things, this becomes a tough nut for the religious to swallow, and they've poured money into boondoggles like various creation or Intelligent Design institutes.
Hell, the oil business is slow right now. Perhaps I should offer my services and shill Intelligent Design. There is probably a lot of cash involved. I'd have to lie to myself, but people have been doing that and worse for financial gain throughout history. I just have an awfully strong conscience.
Earth history is a very mature topic. By mature, I mean that most of the groundwork was done a while back. All we are doing now is filling in some gaps, like finding a new fossil species. The findings don't change things from an overall sense, but it is just part of science. Little gaps are being fleshed out, but the overall picture was apparent by the 1940's.
I watched a Creationist TV show on Pat Robertson's TBN Network the other day. It was absolutely pathetic. I recorded it and watched it several times. The so called expert, from a Creationist institute, claimed that all of the strat of the Grand Canyon were laid down in one day. Geology screams that this is wrong to the point of ridicule.
For your entertainment, here is a funny youtube video where beauty pagent contestants where asked if Evolution should be taught in schools:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRdAe3UAIVs&feature=youtu.be
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
|
I'll bite on this one from Mike:
Beautiful. All of life is like that, and you would think that climbers get that. But here, in this thread, they don’t seem to. They are all about the thing, the measurement, the entity. WTF happened to the experience? . . . to the wild mountain man of being inundated in nature, full force, fired point blank?
WTF? Do you think that a science background means that you cannot experience? I'm the King Bee when it comes to collecting experiences, and I'm still hard at it. I've been experiencing for my entire life, since I read The White Spider. A copy of it was in my small town Oklahoma library of all places, and it made a huge impression on me. Guys were tossing themselves at the Eiger and losing their lives. Their LIVES. It sounded very romantic to a 14 year old. They were my heroes, right from the start.
I started climbing right away. There was nobody to learn from, so we used all sorts of garage gear until we saved up enough money to go to Boulder and hire George Hurley to climb with us for a week. After that we were relatively safe, but we still had some epics.
Just after arriving in college, I found members of the local climbing scene, and did El Cap within 2 years of climbing and learning from them. We lived and breathed it, just like Largo's group of Stonemasters (though not as good). At the time, all we cared about was climbing. Thank God I wasn't the best climber around, because I would have been an unsufferable little snot.
Doing these things doesn't make you a better person. It can lead to arrogance very quickly, and I've found a ton of arrogant folks along the way, mostly from my climbing and jumping days. I used to be an arrogant little prick, but as I grew older, I saw how silly that was. I was immature. That was childish. Having adventures doesn't make you a better person. It can be a trap of egotism.
My life has gone way beyond climbing. I don't like to list all of the stuff that I've gotten myself into over the years, but they were all cool experiences, and they were experiences that I couldn't have gathered in a quiet room at home staring at a Mandala. To me, life is like a big cake, and I've tried to take a bite out of every slice.
I'm still at it. I am just starting to learn paragliding, and I think that this will be my last love. I've lived a full life. I wasn't ever the best at anything, but I was OK at a lot of things. As my life changed, I had to change the risk level. I couldn't be a dad and go risking my neck as much. That just came naturally. It is a big responsibility being a parent, and for me, the risk of some of the things I was doing just weren't worth it. So I toned some things down. I quit BASE when my son was 2, but I found other things that were more sane. I had a close call once, and suddenly the whole thing seemed very selfish. That made a big impact on me, parenthood. Others still did hairball stuff with a kid at home, but I couldn't do it. So I toned it down a little. I didn't put my life on the line. You can still do wild things without risking getting whacked.
I've always just needed to do something. I've done a gaggle of crazy stuff. Some wasn't that dangerous, but still very exciting. Some was super dangerous. Having a son made those things seem totally empty and selfish.
Experiences, though. I've collected them just like others collect coins. I've done all sorts of crazy sh#t, and I don't regret much.
You guys meditate, and call them experiential ventures. Ventures they may be, but they aren't AD-ventures. Adventures are wonderful. You try something that is near your limit, both physically and psychologically. I have a crazy list of adventures that I followed. I'm not alone, either. I met many others like me along the way.
It is just my personality. I can't be happy unless I am having some adventure of some sort.
I'm no rare flower. Along the way, I've met many others who are just like me. They have to go have intense experiences to be happy. I have had to do these things just like I have to breathe. Why? I don't know, but I don't think meditation would give me an answer. Would you rather meditate in a room or go experience the Arctic alone for a summer? Being outside certainly has something to do with it.
How many of you guys have kids? Did you sacrifice to be there for them?
That was a big deal for me, and now my son is out of college and doing well. So now I feel like I can go do riskier things again, like paragliding. It just never felt right when he was a child, though. I found it easy to swallow my ego in order to be a good father, but man have I seen some who didn't. They were too self centered to sacrifice a damn thing. That little person needs a father, and if you can't see that, then you need to step outside yourself and look hard.
I could never understand how others could ignore their children, and being a parent is one of the things that I'm most proud of. I still had adventures, but they weren't as crazy as soloing a route that I would fall on 1 out of 4 tries. That math seemed fine in my early days. No way when I had a son to raise.
I enjoyed it all. The soccer games, the orchestra recitals, the first date. It was certainly the most important thing that I've done in my life. The rest of it is certainly selfish, but I don't regret much. Just don't make a big deal about it. In the scheme of things, it ain't curing cancer.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
|
Hey BASE,
Thanks for sharing this, you will never regret being there and spending time with your son, only if you didn't!
My daughter is out of college and back home and we spend time going hiking once a week most the time and I cherish it!
I have two step children from they were in their teens and my son worked with me on the same tree crew. He passed away a year ago in June at 40 years old from a heart condition and there is not a day we don't miss him!!! We have four grandchildren two from him and two from his sister and are proud of all of them!! Our youngest turned 6 years old today and if you remember when I posted here back that long ago she had two heart surgeries before she was 2 years old and been a doll, but she is going to have another any time now again! I tell you God helped us through it all my friend!
Thanks, Matt
|
|
PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
|
Base; every moment is an adventure of experience; being attached to the so called special moments is exactly that as you mentioned with the arrogance.
meditation is one of numerous tools to be aware of the moment. The question is what is being aware? who is aware ? It can get very intriguing like discovering the great unconformity ; that haha moment! Perceiving out of the box. It is an available tool to experiment with.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
|
It is sad to hear of the loss of your son, goB. At such times religion can be a great blessing.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
|
Matt-
I always wondered what happened to your grand daughter, but you disappeared around that time and I was afraid to ask. I'm so glad she pulled through and I'm sure this surgery will be easier now that she is a little older. It's always nice to get some good news.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
|
just checking in. heavy stuff around here....
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
|
Thank you jgill that means a lot, our son was named John!
Jan, thank you for your kind thoughts and they are comforting and your right it is great news!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
|
goB, my son is also named John.
may your son rest in peace.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
|
bluering thank you, and John is my favorite book in the bible!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
|
That's where the name came from.
My Catholic dad, when they came for the birth certificate info, was shocked that I said his name is John, not Jonathan.
He is simply, John.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 26, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
|
Sweet Good choice!
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
|
we could discuss Jonah living in the intestines of a whale.
Not sure it was a whale...
Jonah 1:17 And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights.
...the question isn't if God could create a fish to swallow Jonah, easy peasy for Him! But that there are fish in the sea, birds in the sky, and animals on land at all!
Matthew 12:40 for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
...Jesus was telling of His death and resurrection!
But talk about fish...
John 21:1 After these things Jesus manifested Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and He manifested Himself in this way. 2 Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two others of His disciples were together. 3 Simon Peter *said to them, “I am going fishing.” They *said to him, “We will also come with you.” They went out and got into the boat; and that night they caught nothing.
4 But when the day was now breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. 5 So Jesus *said to them, “Children, you do not have any fish, do you?” They answered Him, “No.” 6 And He said to them, “Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch.” So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish.7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea. 8 But the other disciples came in the little boat, for they were not far from the land, but about one hundred yards away, dragging the net full of fish.
9 So when they got out on the land, they saw a charcoal fire already laid and fish placed on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have now caught.” 11 Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn.
12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples ventured to question Him, “Who are You?” knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and *took the bread and gave it to them, and the fish likewise. 14 This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead.
From this portion of scripture last week Pastor said, "How does Jesus make breakfast?"
(poof) "BREAKFAST" and everybody laughed!
But Jesus is the only real magician! He feeds 4000 & 5000 on different occasions!
The so called expert, from a Creationist institute, claimed that all of the strat of the Grand Canyon were laid down in one day. Geology screams that this is wrong to the point of ridicule.
I always marvel at the Rainbow Mountains In China’s Danxia Landform Geological Park
God paints with real life...
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
Nov 27, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
|
Those photos are a hard act to follow!
Meanwhile I came across a map that I may or may not have posted before. If so, apologies for the repetition.
There are some real surprises here based on past immigration patterns.
Bahai's in South Carolina ?
Hindus in Arizona and Delaware?
Muslims in Wyoming?
What do you bet that the victims of hate crimes in a given state is related to whoever the second largest religion is?
Except for Buddhist. Nobody seems to hate Buddhists so far.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!