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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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800 Mine! Onsight!
Eat your cyber hearts out. No hacking required.
(Although I posted the first sentence and hit "Post" you might not know it, but I'm adding the rest of this in "Edit" mode. Is this questionable style?
So many questions in life, so few black and white answers
Peace
karl
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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COZ this question was asked up thread and I wanted to ask it again. Have YOU ever RAP BOLTED a ROUTE!!????
Thanks Blair....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Coz, anyone who chops a rout without climbing it first is the biggest coward of all. JMOP;)
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Hawkeye wrote: so bob,
you think all cliffs should be open to Rapp and Drill?
I think it really up to the FA party and the route itself unless it private land.
Rap-bolting is nothing new to the Valley.
Until any of you own Half Dome...then you can have an opinion or how and where a route should go...just like me...when you own it...then you can dictate what or what not happen!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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I just happened by this place, I do not climb, I am a Kayaker by nature.
But maybe an outsiders viewpoint might be refreshing.
Did you feel any guilt while placing the bolts?
That is the ultimate answer.
And nobody knows but you.
To me, Half Dome is the most recognizable piece of granite on Planet Earth.
Then El Cappy.
As a guitar player also, I never copy Hendrix.
Some things you just leave alone, out of pure respect.
Half Dome is the Jimmy Hendrix of the Rock World.
But then again,
A tree fell in the river near the Class 3 Chilli Bar run on the South Fork American.
The traditional view of the Sierra Club is "Don't you dare touch it, no matter how dangerous!"
Well, a week later, a girl falls out a raft and gets snagged in the tree.
Tree removed one day later.
Would the lack of bolts endangered somebody somewhere down the line?
If so, then WTF?
You nEed the Hubble Telescope to see the damage, the friggin tourist ani't gonna know, unless they read Climbing, eh?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Hawkeye wrote
"and karl, while i appreciate your peace, your agenda of having more moderate protectable routes in yosmeite is duly noted but go do it yourself in your own way"
Why should I? I'm not about telling others what to do and I'm not doing as I'm told. I'm sick of the head games. I don't bolt and I don't chop. That's just my style and I'm fine with it.
There were huge slag fests over the Dawn Wall. Who now thinks it wrong? Wings of Steel was a big slag fest and nobody has repeated it.
Coz and Kurt power-drilled and at least one said that was fine (after apologizing profusely at the time) Was it necessary? Lots of people hand drill big bolts.
Maybe it's style, maybe it's ethics, but it just seems to me that the "standard" is really no standard. Everybody cheats in their own way complementing their own strengths and hiding their particular weakness.
Does it lower the adventure to fix lines and go back after rest and a case of beer? Yeah. Does it lower the adventure to aid then go back and free? Yeah. Does it lower the adventure to climb boldly below your limit? Yeah.
I just got back from India and saw monkey's climb 5.16. Being a gifted climber isn't automatically a noble thing. We all make choice of what we're doing for ourselves or contributing to others and then others judge us according to their own conditioning.
I'm about "live and let live" I've lived in Yosemite almost 30 years and predictions of the moral demise of the sport are greatly premature. Everything is just fine if you don't have your panties in a bunch.
Peace
Karl
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Blair -
Perhaps Coz has rapbolted a route, but I would wager he's never rapbolted a big wall. I think this might be a large part of the issue.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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How you want to define "big wall?" Is Snake Dike a big wall?
Peace
Karl
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Scott wrote: Bob,
Who made the rules?
Answer.... Newton
Yes I rap bolted two 5.14 in Joshua tree, Both little cliffs of rotten rock. I have also put up 13d on lead.
I rap bolted because the holds where so fragile, I didn't want to break them with a hook.
I took a lot of sh#t for it, and a few punches.
Newton wasn't a climber...try again.
You climbed the way you wanted and you should either feel proud or ashamed. Wanting everyone to do as you is unrealistic and to me...the sign of a ego-maniac.
You don't own or have the authority to tell anyone how to climb on Half Dome...you have a opinion just like the rest of us.
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Chopping a route, regardless of how or why it was put up, is an act of pure egotism which is destructive and irresponsible. Far worse, in my opinion, then the aleged egotism that established the route.
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WBraun
climber
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Authority
Ah yes, now who has the authority?
No me, not you, not the govt.
So who has?
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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I think the grade is generally a pretty good indicator of big wall status, although I'm sure there are a few differences of opinion here.
Snake Dike, to me, doesn't seem like a big wall: It's eight pitches, 240 meters, and is Grade II or III. By comparison, the average number of pitches for big walls on the SuperTopo Yosemite Big Wall page (http://www.supertopo.com/routebeta/bigwalls.html); is ~20.
Also, many/most of those seem to be grade V or VI.
I'd think Growing Up is a V or a VI. Could be wrong! I'm not sure how easy the clean aid is, obviously.
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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Your honor I rest my case.
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pimp daddy wayne
climber
The Bat Caves
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"You climbed the way you wanted and you should either feel proud or ashamed. Wanting everyone to do as you is unrealistic and to me...the sign of a ego-maniac. "
"You don't own or have the authority to tell anyone how to climb on Half Dome...you have a opinion just like the rest of us."
You hit the nail on the head my hommie...........
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WBraun
climber
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No he didn't hit any nail on the head, he's just swinging the hammer through the air.
He's unconsciously taking the role of authority himself, and now telling someone else they have no authority.
Thus .....
Artificially trying to construct a civilization based on interdependent self-interest on the material platform easily collapses the social peace and harmony.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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What are you really saying Werner?
Is the Trad nature of climbing reality built into the cosmos, or where does any authority to climb anything come from?
Peace
Karl
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I'm about "live and let live" I've lived in Yosemite almost 30 years and predictions of the moral demise of the sport are greatly premature. Everything is just fine if you don't have your panties in a bunch.
Peace
Karl
Word!!
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WBraun
climber
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That will be your search Karl and the rest of em included.
Otherwise ..... widespread social conflict and chaos will prevail and remain perpetually.
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Werner,
"That will be your search Karl and the rest of em includedd.
Otherwise ..... widespread social conflict and chaos will prevail and remain perpetually."
I respect you, I really do.....but I fear you have lived in Yosemite too long, a place where too many have assumed a "divine authority" for too long! Conflict and choas will prevail only in the minds of those who assume this "divine authority". The rest of us will smile, and go on about our buisness !!!
Cracko
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