Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
|
Doesn't it come down to belief, either way? Leaving aside the flawed process. Some believe much or all of what the proponents claim, others don't. Key documents, such as the stage 2 proposal and the park use permit application, haven't been made public. The only way to address that is full disclosure, independent review, and inclusive public discussion. That is, the facts.
The proponents may make all the claims they wish, and hold infomercials galore. Their supporters can believe what they want - it's a free country. Unless there's disclosure of all facts, and something in writing with binding guarantees, it's reasonable to remain skeptical.
We all have sticking points when it comes to principles and values. I'm generally in favour of appropriate development, and indeed believe that the adventure centre, perhaps with a First Peoples component, would have been a reasonable fit in the gravel pit. A gondola isn't.
Much of what has happened seems parallel to what is happening at the federal level. Governments doing their best to quell independent review and discussion, notwithstanding the law and past practice. A Squamish gondola is small potatoes compared to say Enbridge, and doesn't appear to entail anything like the same risks, but the principle is much the same.
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
|
Just wait, the gondola if built will probably serve tour busses that would then drive on up to Whistler without dropping a dime in Squamish itself. Such arrangements are common with tourist facilities. With $$$ to be made by selling food and trinkets, encouraging tourists to venture downtown would be a fools mission.
While the above is speculation, without the proponents clearly and in depth describing the how they intend to finance and run this deal, the public is left with speculation.
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
|
Bruce, actually not all opponents of the gondola are disinclined to communicate with the proponents. I've emailed them, asking them for a copy of their environmental assessment report (which should be public by now). No reply, and I can't find it on their web site or any government site. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough? Maybe they didn't do one? Maybe they have something to hide? I don't know, and that's a huge problem with this proposal: we don't know enough.
I emailed them asking them how they were going to get power up to the top: up the road? Up the gondola right-of-way? Generate power at top? No answer.
I'm not asking for details on their business plan, just on stuff that affects public land.
Glenn
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
|
Bruce, Squamish seems to have tons of potential in the downtown and closer to the water. You local have a better grasp of the possible ways to make the downtown for for local and tourists alike. My impression having lived in several towns that depend on tourism is that the place that is best for the locals will find its tourism niche. Tourists (and when we leave our neighborhoods we fall into that category) want to be treated like locals and to a large extent will aspire to do the activities locals enjoy doing. Consider that perspective from your travels.
You, I believe, mentioned the need for access to the downtown from the south. This makes lots of sense in many ways but I remember that railroad and perhaps port issues were a barrier. Maybe with strong community involvement that could be addressed. The current entrance to town seems pretty good by many standards and many tourism based towns have had to find a way to get automobiles out of the core downtowns because of traffic and safety issues. Maybe you guys are ahead of the curve.
The location and scenery of Squamish is world class and deserves top notch planning and public process to develop the best style of tourism, one that meshes with local needs and interests.
It is my sense that this deal is not about the town of Squamish but about the investors in the gondola. This proposal does not need Squamish, it would be "Another Roadside Attraction" but not as funny...
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
|
I agree that this project is unlikely to direct buses downtown. A much better proposal would be to put it somewhere like the site of the old foot-suspension bridge across the Squamish River and run it to a platform above Monmouth Creek. Mow THAT would be a great view! Good for downtown S., too.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
|
"1.9% financing on a toyota, that was my idea."
Here we go again; see posts 906-918.
At least on this thread, we'll earn our recycling badges honestly.
And Anders, you'll be my friend even if you lash your naked body to the first pieces of re-bar at the gravel pit.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
|
Hmmmmm., building lots mean water and I'm not sure they'll want swimmers in the resevoir. I'd think the development at the top of the hill south of porteau would be way in front of Watts Pt. I might see a hwy in there but res. lots might be pushing it.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
|
Off topic but the Sports guy on the 6 o'clock news just compared Ryder Hesjedal's feat to Mike Wier winning the U.S. open. Moses.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 10:04pm PT
|
There's a choice lot across the hwy from the Shell station; you could probably get that one for two hundred. Comes with ear protection for the whole family. Looks down on the nice new highway though. West Van this isn't.
There are also many view lots in Britannia, quite reasonably priced. One acre plus for 350. I'm not sure what a one acre lot at Cypress would go for but something tells me it won't be 350.
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 10:21pm PT
|
Due to the usual power line issues monmouth creek or Lapworth or anything else over there isn't going to happen. I wish it could as well, along with goat ridge but thats all in a perfect world unfortunately.
I recall that the power line is pretty close to the river there. Perhaps the gondoal intake (so to speak) could be above the powerlines. We could have a short, horizontal cable car or gondola to get people across the river and then a tiny moving sidewalk sort of thing to get people under the powerlines to the gondola proper.
I know, I know, completely impractical; just wishing.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 27, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
|
O.K., my mistake, although Watts Pt. is pretty close to Squamish.
Tunnels have their own unique hazards. And lets not forget.....we're broke.
I'm still re-reading your second sentence Jim. I may have to do a few laps on it. What's the connection between profit and hwy construction/Murrin? Am I missing something?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:03am PT
|
333 signatures now, on-line.
Some photos from the south summit, from Saturday.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:19am PT
|
For your viewing pleasure.
PROVINCIAL PROTECTED AREA BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENT POLICY, PROCESS AND GUIDELINES
Stage 1: Initial Proposal:
The proponent submits an initial proposal to the Director responsible for protected area planning, BC Parks. The initial proposal should include:
6. Preliminary assessment of alternatives that would avoid the use of protected lands and the reasons those alternatives are not considered feasible.
4. GUIDELINES FOR DETAILED PROPOSALS:
Implementing a boundary adjustment requires approval of the Minister, Cabinet, and usually the Legislature. Proponents should ensure that the information they submit with their detailed proposal addresses the following considerations to the satisfaction of the Minister:
1. Alternatives to avoid the protected area have been considered.
Proponents must consider and document alternatives that would avoid a protected area boundary adjustment. Clear supporting rationale for supporting or rejecting an alternative must be provided.
No detailed proposal has yet been posted to the government website, as required by the policy, or indeed much else information.
Imagine the possibilities of the Goat Ridge location:
 much better views,
no apparent conflicts,
lots more room for mountain biking and hiking trails if they were ever built, especially linking with existing trails on Goat Ridge and perhaps Petgill Lake,
perhaps accessible from Shannon Creek roads and if not, maybe from Britannia Creek, either way opening up the area, at least to walkers and mountain bikers, and
maybe shorter.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:24am PT
|
Damn right you need a bike! Look at that countryside. World Class.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:25am PT
|
It would be steep below the upper terminal regardless where it was in upper Shannon Creek - IIRC it's a hanging valley.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:33am PT
|
I like the idea of the highway being rerouted around to the west of Murrin Park, depending on what other interest there is in the area. Environmental, First Peoples, private property, etc. It doesn't seem all that likely, although widening to four lanes through Murrin Park and Browning Lake would also be problematic. Still, it's the only two lane section between Brohm Lake, or even further north, and Britannia, or really Furry Creek. Widening it is in the plans.
In 2005-07 or so I went to innumerable "Recreation Focus Group" meetings with the highway planning team, for the Access Society. All the usual suspects were there. Quite interesting, and they were somewhat receptive. We got some money for trail work at the Papoose, although they blasted more than was originally planned. Plus a bunch of work on roads and parking in front of the Chief. They couldn't be persuaded to use "quiet pavement" through Murrin Park and in front of the Chief and Apron, and the money that was spent on the fancy pedestrian bridge could have been better spent on a simple tunnel under the highway, with the remainder used for trail work and such. But there were other useful odds and ends we got.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 02:02am PT
|
At least you're still standing.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 02:04am PT
|
Richard Nixon's initial campaign slogan in 1960, after eight years as Eisenhower's vice-president, was "We Can't Stand Pat".
Patricia Nixon, his wife, was not amused.
ps I don't know that we need to discuss the non-naming of a certain bridge at all. Also, the "memorial" bit seems premature.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 10:40am PT
|
I love the morning coffee with special K.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 28, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
|
Many things are over my head. All climbs, when I start climbing. Most jobs. That doesn't stop me from trying.
There's already an Ourom Lake, in northeast Saskatchewan. Named for my father's brother.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!