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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 26, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
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But it is your area of expertise to cast suspicion it might be a chemtrail plane, Tony?
Sure Tony, they use mercury instead of water. WTF?
Hehe, beer kegs.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 26, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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raymond, i'm having a little trouble following your reasoning in this last post, but i also have the feeling we're starting to get somewhere. you seem a bit contradictory. care to take another crack at it?
I am not sure what you are getting at but what I think I tried to say was.
People have a theory about chemtrails. They use arguments x,y,z. Argument x,y,z seems to be clearly incorrect to me. So my conclusion is that the chemtrail theory is incorrect.
What this doesn't show though is that someone is not spraying something in the air. I can't disprove that but nothing seems to suggest that it is true to me.
i think your sentiments are rather outrageous: " I doubt many people actually care about the sky ...", but i have to admit you're right about a whole generation, my own son included, which seems to have grown up with its entire emotional focus going into a computer screen, most of it developed by the eternal vistas of video games. if you don't care about the sky, i don't think you belong on supertopo.
I am not sure if you got my point and I wasn't clear. I don't know that a lot of people look enough to what is happening with clouds and have enough understanding of the mechanism to know what to look at.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 26, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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I can't disprove that but nothing seems to suggest that it is true to me.
Crop dusters spray sh'it all over the country in their orchards and on their crops.
There goes your statement.
Heh heh .... :-)
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 26, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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cropdusting is one thing--at least we know it's going on, nobody is trying to tell us it isn't, and it's pretty obvious when it happens. there is also at least a bit of pressure against it--because it's obvious.
i'm not going to post photo after photo of chemtrails on here--we've already had some. take a look at some of the web pages. ignore the theorizing--none of it is terribly consistent, but look at the photos. what reason in the world for laying these things down like plaid at certain times? they certainly aren't regular flight paths of commercial, private or military flights. somebody just doing it for the fun of it? it goes on bigtime--sometimes--and there has to be some purpose behind it and it's being entirely hidden from public awareness, comment and debate. that's what pisses me off to no end. no, we don't have the information we need to decide about it, and i doubt we'd be allowed to make tests of it which would be credible. you can bet that air traffic control would wake up for that.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 26, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
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i'm not going to post photo after photo of chemtrails on here--we've already had some. take a look at some of the web pages. ignore the theorizing--none of it is terribly consistent, but look at the photos.
So the only argument you care about is pics of something that you don't understand? What background knowledge do you use to decide that it is not terribly consistent?
what reason in the world for laying these things down like plaid at certain times? they certainly aren't regular flight paths of commercial, private or military flights. some
Ok, I don't live in California but most long lasting contrails I have is straight lines over the sky and I see no reason to doubt that it is not commercial flights that make them.
I have also seen pretty fun looking contrails that was going all over the place both vertically and horizontally. The reason was of course fighter plane training.
body just doing it for the fun of it? it goes on bigtime--sometimes--and there has to be some purpose behind it and it's being entirely hidden from public awareness, comment and debate.
So you claim that it exist thousands of non commercial planes spraying all over the world?
So you have got into full conspiracy mood once again...
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 29, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
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Interesting pic, eh Klimmer?
Do you think this plane (MD-11, 3 engines, same model as UPS902) is spinning to make those vortices in the contrail?
Yeah, I know Tony, the crew has just opened the valves to the mercury kegs....
And Klimmer's 'spiraling' missile below:
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 29, 2010 - 07:36pm PT
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Vortices do come from wingtips, caused by the low pressure above the wings. Spirals may be a better word.
Whatever term you use, they look very similar to the spirals that Klimmer say prove that the 'missile' was 'spiraling'.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Nov 29, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
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We should consider it might have been one of these special
North Korean missiles.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 30, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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Tom, you swing both ways in these topics, but are a pilot who knows planes, pilots, weather, and aviation maintenance / logistics - chemtrails as anything but a rare, directed edge case or do you buy into the new world order is spraying us en masse?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 30, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
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tom likes to keep his tits out of the wringer, so to speak.
meanwhile, back at the wringer:
a report that the german military admitted use of spraying for "war exercises", assuring that the chemicals are "harmless":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4&feature=related
new zealand:
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/photogallery/index.php?cat=9
some unsubstatiated but rather particular reports from ohio about the high-tech involved:
http://www.skybluepony.com/page2/page2.html
rosalind peterson has been an activist about this in california. she cites some reference from NASA about spraying, some concerns about effects on climate, and use of trimethyl aluminum and barium:
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/rosalind.html
that was for 2006 legislation, but the beat goes on. geoengineering isn't her word, it seems to be congress's as well:
http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/?q=geoengineering
the canadian web page is interesting. these people started to notice this in their area around 2002. something different, increased activity. that's what i'm talking about:
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/chemtrails.html
and, chemtrails are patriotic! (just kidding, i'm sure it was photoshopped. well, sorta sure.):
http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/crime-countdowns/conspiracy-theories/conspiracy-theories-08.html
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Nov 30, 2010 - 08:22pm PT
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When Cloud Seeding Goes Wrong: Cement Chunk Falls from the Sky
The Russian Air Force, during a mission to clear the skies of potentially rain-filled clouds, dropped a mixture of silver iodide, liquid nitrogen and cement powder in an attempt to seed the clouds. This form of climate modification is common practice in Russia, when attempting to engineer dry days on public holidays and special events in Moscow. However, during the cloud seeding operation last week, cement dropped from one of the aircraft failed to fragment when falling through the air, falling as a solid mass, crashing through the roof of a Moscow suburban home…
Cloud seeding is a highly controversial method used to modify local climates. Russia and China are two large nations that believe various methods of cloud seeding are effective in deflecting storms and preventing rain clouds from precipitating on events requiring dry weather. Silver iodide, dry ice and various salts are used as artificial particles acting as water droplet nuclei. Dropping these particles can trigger precipitation, but any form of climate modification can be unpredictable, and in some cases, dangerous.
One such unpredictable outcome from last week’s “routine” cloud seeding effort by the Russian Air Force above the skies of Moscow resulted in something bigger than rain hitting the ground. A pack of cement (with rain-making properties I’m guessing) was dropped from one of the 12 seeding planes with a cocktail of silver iodide and liquid nitrogen. The point? To clear the skies above Moscow in preparation for a dry national holiday on June 12th known as Russia Day. The result? The cement mix failed to break apart, creating the desired cloud of dust after it was released. Instead it maintained its shape (and presumably its cement-like hardness) and dropped to the ground like a stone rock.
•A pack of cement used in creating good weather in the capital region failed to pulverize completely at high altitude and fell on the roof of a home, made a hole about 80-100cm[2.5-3ft] Naro-Fominsk Police when talking with agency RIA-NOVOSTI
Fortunately no one was hurt, but the Russian homeowner is less than impressed. He has shunned the Air Force’s offer of $2,100 to fix the roof and is suing for “moral suffering” damages instead. The Air Force claims this was a freak accident and unheard of in the 20 years of cloud seeding operations.
Sources: Reuters, Environmental Graffiti
July 19 2008
Knowing the RU and their cement probably used an old sack.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Nov 30, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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This stereopair alone easily invalidates the commercial jet-airliner hypothesis.
No commercial jet-airliner climbs out of the ocean at a steep radical angle spiraling upward and then to the W - WNW. The exhaust/vapor plume is strongly back-lit by the setting Sun (at 250 degrees from L.A.), as easily seen in this stereopair. The sides of the exhaust are hi-lighted and the center mass of the exhaust (closer to the viewer) is darker. The spiraling exhaust/vapor plume is spiraling in a clock-wise fashion.
Unless of course, commercial jet-airliners now launch out of the ocean like the NASA Space Shuttle. Dang, those passengers must have had an incredible ride, with a flaming engine that is glowing and seen over 170+ miles away with a HD news video camera zooming in. Better go figure out where that jet crash-landed in the ocean with all those passengers.
Over the TG holiday, I showed my PPT with stereograms using my stereoscope to a large group of relatives, and they concurred, it was not a commercial jet-airliner.
All of the evidence points to the fact that it was some kind of missile.
Only incapable and incompetent observers think otherwise.
Ouch. That is gonna hurt.
And no I did not get a copy of the original HD video footage from KCAL. However, some people there at KCAL already know what I was able to do with stereopairs made from the original footage, and that it does indeed invalidate the commercial jet-airliner hypothesis. It could easily be done with the original HD video. The quality of the stereograms would be superb.
I'm sure Uncle Sam wants this to be done no doubt. (Sarcasm)
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Klimmer:
Latitude 33° 14’ 13.7 N, Longitude 119° 28’ 22 W.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Except, of course, that you can't get that lighting from a 'missile' track north of the solar azimuth and headed NW.
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raymond phule
climber
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Fascinating Tony. You have find web pages that show pics of contrails. That is obviously indisputable proof that an alien ark exist on the backside of the moon (or was that another thread?).
The peer reviewed article from 1970 that only showed one single pic of a chemtrail is of course nothing compared to your links that show lots of pics of contrails. The only that matters is the numbers of pics of course.
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raymond phule
climber
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Just curious.
All of the evidence points to the fact that it was some kind of missile.
Only incapable and incompetent observers think otherwise.
(My emphasis)
Why don't you consider Rick Warren's pics as evidence?
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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And the LAX webcam pic, which shows the 'missile' going toward the coast.
Simple trig, Klimmer.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Ron, you seem to agree that the 'missile' was going towards the coast.
Simple visual evidence from two different angles, right?
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