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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jorroh wrote: So no, its not the fault of the guy who took out a second mortgage to buy a Harley. Why do you keep saying that?
Because like most neo-cons he wants to rewrite history.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Exactly Westchrist. The poor and disenfranchised get regularly slammed as welfare leaches and cheats. When in reality the real welfare abuse is the greedy slimes at the top not paying anywhere near there share. Those are the entitlements that need to be slashes and gutted not the welfare mom of 3 who cant afford food or the disabled who cant afford rent.
Wake up America we are better than this.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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I would prefer Neo = New + Con = Convict.
New Convicts!
We should at least get proper use of all those prisons our tax dollars pay for.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Blue wrote: Lower tax rate than who?
Blue...look at the bottom of your link...the upper tax rate have enjoyed a 4.5 percent reduction in taxes as compared to the rest that have a two percent reduction. Thanks for posting and proving Wes's point.
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apogee
climber
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bluering, I know damn well that you are not enough of a simpleton to actually believe that the current tax bracket is the amount of tax the high earners (or large corporations) actually pay.
Any halfway intelligent & savvy American works that tax code hard to their advantage- you do it, I do it, everyone does it.
The difference is that the moneyed elite have waaaaaaay more resources available to them to find and maximize loopholes, and more importantly, lobby the entire financial and governmental system to their advantage. They don't pay anywhere close to that maximum rate.
How about this compromise: we drop the maximum tax rate a couple of percent, and at the same time, tighten the tax code so that the big money manipulators can't dodge it. Oh, yes..and purge those bastards out of the political system like last night's bad tacos.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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bluering, I know damn well that you are not enough of a simpleton to actually believe that the current tax bracket is the amount of tax the high earners (or large corporations) actually pay.
Any halfway intelligent & savvy American works that tax code hard to their advantage- you do it, I do it, everyone does it.
The difference is that the moneyed elite have waaaaaaay more resources available to them to find and maximize loopholes, and more importantly, lobby the entire financial and governmental system to their advantage. They don't pay anywhere close to that maximum rate.
How about this compromise: we drop the maximum tax rate a couple of percent, and at the same time, tighten the tax code so that the big money manipulators can't dodge it. Oh, yes..and purge those bastards out of the political system like last night's bad tacos.
Well, now you guys are starting to split hairs.
What individual filers in the upper brackets pay depends. How good is their accounting dept.?
Take GE, as a corporation. How much did they make, and how much in corp taxes did they pay? That is theft!
Sounds like you all favor a flat tax with no exemptions, which I'm in favor of.
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apogee
climber
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"Sounds like you all favor a flat tax with no exemptions, which I'm in favor of."
Yeah, that would probably be a great thing, if it wasn't set up & manipulated by the mega-corps & uber-rich in such a way to give them great advantage. Not thinkin' that's gonna happen.
The point is, in all of the recent hoo-hah about the debt, every time the issue of revenue was discussed, the raging teaparty FauxNews droids spun that as 'higher taxes'. Hell, if you set a reasonable tax rate and apply it equitably, rates would probably decrease for the middle & lower class.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Yeah, that would probably be a great thing, if it wasn't set up & manipulated by the mega-corps & uber-rich in such a way to give them great advantage. Not thinkin' that's gonna happen.
The point is, in all of the recent hoo-hah about the debt, every time the issue of revenue was discussed, the raging teaparty FauxNews droids spun that as 'higher taxes'. Hell, if you set a reasonable tax rate and apply it equitably, rates would probably decrease for the middle & lower class.
Let's face it, you're always gonna hate rich people and people who make a modest living and want a modest (smaller) gov't.
The current tax rates are pretty fair. A flat-tax would benefit the rich and hurt the poor. If it was 18-25%. Anything higher is sheer Socialism.
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apogee
climber
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Maybe I was wrong, bluering. If you think that the uber-rich are paying their fair share of taxes like you and I, and haven't gamed the system heavily in their favor, maybe you are a simpleton.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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If you think that the uber-rich are paying their fair share of taxes like you and I, and haven't gamed the system heavily in their favor, maybe you are a simpleton.
You're assuming that rich people do. Because you hate the rich.
They are the ones paying welfare checks...
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apogee
climber
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"You're assuming that rich people do. Because you hate the rich."
Don't apply your oversimplified rightwing rhetoric to me, bluering, unless you want to own up the oversimplified leftwing rhetoric that is levelled against you, i.e. bigoted & racist. If so, we'll leave it at that- you're a bigoted, racist homophobe that can only understand things if it's reaaaaalll simple.
If not, we'll continue. What say you?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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S&P and Moody's told us if we didn't cut spending in our bill by 4 Trillion, we'd be downgraded. We cut by 2.5 Trillion...guess what happened???
Is this the repubs fault? Who were calling for the 4 Trill?
Compromise. 2.5 Trill and a downgrade. Thanks Obama and Dems.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Blue wrote: S&P and Moody's told us if we didn't cut spending in our bill by 4 Trillion, we'd be downgraded. We cut by 2.5 Trillion...guess what happened???
Is this the repubs fault? Who were calling for the 4 Trill?
Compromise. 2.5 Trill and a downgrade. Thanks Obama and Dems.
S&P stated that the lack of revenues in the new bill was one of the biggest reason for the downgrade.
From the report: We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process.
Thanks for being so honest blue.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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S&P stated that the lack of revenues in the new bill was one of the biggest reason for the downgrade.
Whatever, dude! It's the lack of financial responsibility!!!!!
That's what a credit rating is! We spend more than we take in!!!!! Very simple.
Your solution is to just take more 'rich peoples' money and keep spending more, at the same rate.
Eat the rich.
Guess what happens when they're gone? Venezuela. Cuba. North Korea.
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apogee
climber
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So blue, let's say you were married and your wife goes berserk in a bunch of ways, and spends up all of your credit cards and a bunch of huge loans that you become responsible for. You wind up divorcing her, but the mega-debt follows you...you then happily re-marry, but times are tough for both of you. One day, out of desperation, your new wife spends almost all the cash and credit you have left on an unexpected, critical expense. A couple of days later, the bank calls up and says your credit cards have been blocked, and your credit score has dropped by 100 points.
So, I guess you'd say this is all your new wife's fault then, right?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Blue wrote: Whatever, dude! It's the lack of financial responsibility!!!!!
No dude it is a lack of a balance approach to spending and revenues.
Only a dumb f*#k would try to pin this on Obama and not the real culprits.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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So, I guess you'd say this is all your new wife's fault then, right?
Partially her fault, after all she did spend beyond her means. But it DID start with wife #1 (Bush).
Bottom line in this scenario is the tea-baggers, like myself. We don't advocate for this crap. We spend responsibly, as we expect our gov't to do.
If we're gonna fight wars, we gotta make cuts elsewhere.
If we want jobs here, stop encouraging business to send them elsewhere.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"So, I guess you'd say this is all your new wife's fault then, right?"
I certainly wouldn't re-elect her.
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