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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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Anger at the tea parties? Surely, you jest!
Why, they're just patriotic Americans.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 16, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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"Accusing the Republicans of being racists just by virtue of their opposition to President Obama's plan is not a dialogue. It is group pathology. The fact that it's gaining traction is truly alarming."
I'll try this one more time, and then let it go.
The above quote is a subtle con because it narrowly defines or at any rate implies that the only form of racism is when one race overtly abuses a race simply by virtue of their race. Since few if any far right conservatives are calling Obama out because he's a black man, they feel they are off the hook so far as being racist. And so far as race bashing goes, they probably are.
But this does not at all mean that race isn't a central and determining factor in being a far right conservative. This is where the far right is totally confused in terms of self-identity: In claiming that race is not a factor in THEIR politics. Not SOMEONE ELSES race - but it Obama, Satomayor, Wayne Chang, or Chief Seattle - but THEIR race, which is white.
The question they ask is: What does race have to do with being a right wing conservative? And why should I, a right wing conservative, be beaten down simply because I am white? Isn't that racism - to hammer the far right because they are white?
The problem with the previous bit is that they are answering questions that are not being asked. Nobody viable is saying that the far right is "bad" because they are "white." What they ARE saying is that race is a central issue with in the far right because virtually all of them ARE white. The far right is a white club, period. They say that race or being white doesn't matter, is immaterial, but this is an inversion. What "doesn't matter" is THEY could care less what race or creed or group is opposing them - they are equal rights haters -they will attack negros, Mexicans, Chinamen or whoever is in their path, not becuase of race, but because the negro or Mexican or Chinaman is not embracing the ethos and philosophies of the white right. Now if the negros, Mexicans and Chinese were to think and feel exactly like the white right - which they should do for their own salvation - then peace and prosperity would be restored, right, and the Big White Dood would be restord to his rightful throne, correct?
But hey, what does being white have to do with it??
JL
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jstan
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:05pm PT
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CC:
"You need to fully understand that these people do not want to negotiate."
Since we are not willing to negotiate either then let's have at it?
Which people do we want to kill?
Only those with the oil we want?
Skin colors?
If there is significant opinion that this is how we have to go
where are the people insisting on paying more taxes?
where are the people asking for a peacetime draft?
Chopper, if you feel this is our destiny, why are you not arguing for increased taxes and a draft?
Why?
Failing a logical answer we are left to draw our own conclusions.
We can do that.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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from
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/15/carter.obama/index.html
(CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that racial politics played a role in South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during President Obama's speech to Congress last week and in some of the opposition the president has faced since taking office.
"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told "NBC Nightly News." "I live in the South, and I've seen the South come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that shares the South's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans."
"That racism inclination still exists, and I think it's bubbled up to the surface because of belief among many white people -- not just in the South but around the country -- that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country. It's an abominable circumstance, and it grieves me and concerns me very deeply," Carter said....
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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No secret that a main thread in the post-Eisenhower Republican Party has been racism, usually cloaked, sometimes overt. Ever since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, which Lyndon Johnson correctly predicted would lost the Democrats the south for a generation or more.
It's also no secret that Ronald Reagan's 1980 campaign began at Philadelphia, Mississippi - where civil rights workers James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner were murdered by white supremacists in 1964. Reagan's speech highlighted "states' rights", which in context usually means "white rights".
The racism may be more subtle, and there's much more to the Republican party than that, but it's always there.
"Wilson-Palin 2012"
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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Howweirddean and Jimmy Carter, you're both not getting it. You're not grasping the basic, most fundamental message about this whole tedious "race" thing. You have to get past your black and white definition of racism as one race hating another.
Let me make it perfectly clear to you. Take the Wilson case. The racism here HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA, and it has everything to do with Wilson - not in what he thinks or feels about ANY OTHER RACE, INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES - but in the way he acts and thinks and feels and believes.
Wilson is not the product of a Latino or Black or Asian ethos - Wilson is a white man with a right wing conservative background and belief structrue, a structure that is PARTICULAR to whites. He is a racist because he believes that his particuar agenda, which was cooked up by and is in the service of and is expoused entirely by WHITE FOLK like himself, must be driven down the throat of everyone else regardless of their race, creed, or beliefs, and anyone who should threaten this white right agenda has to be yelled off the stage, no matter what race or creed they are.
This business of trying to force feed America the whole White Right agenda is the very reason the White Right has been accused of being a thinly veiled white supremacy group.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
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"The nation, when taken as a whole, must not be racists or else Obama could not have won."
I did not say that, WeirdObliviousLois. You did.
"Now your point is that the GOP has more "racists" in their midst than other parties."
Tru nuff, it would be tough to figure this out empirically, but if the behaviors of the GOP in the last 8 months as compared to the behaviors of Dems during the Shrub 'Reign of Error' are any indicator....like you said, 'It's a no brainer'. The most significant racism that exists today surely resides predominantly in the GOP. To refute that is to be, once again, ignorant of facts and reality.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 16, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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How did the South go GOP from DEM? The Blue collar white dudes switched parties.
Largo's interpretation is nuanced but correct. We just see things our own way and are threatened when somebody "other" is in control. That emotion can be manipulated.
That's why the right is losing it's mind. The guy in charge has been made out ot be a foreigner commie outsider.
Hardly anything has changed and anyone who understands anything about how bad the economy was when Bush left can only be relieved we dodged as much of the bullet as we have.
It ain't over though. Peak oil is just around the corner and we haven't got any unity to rally with yet
Peace
karl
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sep 16, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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One other interesting things about the race thing: I remember when I went back to grad school and studied Clinical Psych for the hell of it and we had a bunch of classes on race and identity and how the anglo is so close to his own racial makeup and identity that he is unaware of it even being a factor in his life. Since we don't go walking around thinking of ourselves as "white folks," or belong to white student unions or such things, being white is meaningless, correct?
Then you talk to people from other races and they can immediately single out things abot white folks that white folks are not even aware of. The most glaring thing is that the world the white man has built up in his mind is the world he unconsciously expects everyone else to follow, and when they don't, the white has the rather unsavor habit of getting very hostile and trying to force the issue. It used to be called the "whate man's burden," getting everyone, world wide, to conform to the white man's MO.
At this subtle level it isn't about race, per se, but identity formation and identification.
JL
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Sep 16, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Wow, over 10,000 posts, who would have thought.
Jeez, I forgot that the Moral Majority were just that. Look at all those people protesting against that commie and socialist pig, Obama. Georgie Boy never had that turn out of haters.
Just goes to show you that a rabid dog can learn to attack if it has a fascist lead around it neck.
Jeff, stick to the wealth management game. Your politics are becoming old hat.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 16, 2009 - 08:00pm PT
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HWD, you're talking about the specifics of the behaviour of one loutish representative from South Carolina. I'm talking about the general institutional behaviour of the Republican party. The former may be a reflection or illustration of the latter, and IMHO probably is - but the latter is the real issue.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 08:11pm PT
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"Does that statement bear witness to the fact that he is a sexist and a misogynist or is it evidence that he has poor anger management skills?"
In a word: Yes.
In a few more words: Calling your wife a name in the heat of a private argument is inappropriate, but happens. Calling her a 'c#@&' in public demonstrates a whole new level of anger management & social filter problems, and is commonly (likely?) a sign of someone with regular sexist &/or misogynistic behaviors.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 16, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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I don't feel so alone now, sounds like McCain is as nasty as I am.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Sep 16, 2009 - 08:27pm PT
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jstan
I think that your questions stem from a false premise that you had to think hard to come up with. If not then you're deep in the Liberal mindset and no thinking was required.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 16, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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CC:
That quote is directly from your post. You say our adversaries "do not want to negotiate.
Now I could say that comes from a conservative mindset that considers war the only option.
But what's the point of saying that.
Saying that just shuts off all further discussion.
Only someone with a fixed mindset who intends to have no further discussion would thus impugn someone with whom a discussion is hoped for.
You would not so impugn someone with whom you hope to have a discussion.
I am sure.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 16, 2009 - 09:22pm PT
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Even though the policital situation is much more complex, I welcome the recent focus on racism because if puts things more in black and white (forgive the pun) and sound bites and simple explanations and this is all the general public can understand.
The republicans have been masters at this. Simplify everything and spread lies to justify your positions. It's lame but it works. In order to compete the Dems need to do the same things the republicans do; lie, simplify, project, setup strawman arguments etc. The dems take the high road more than the republicans, it's the only reason the republicans ever get elected lately.
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