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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2010 - 03:38am PT
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One of the things that has bugged me from the get go has been the time line of events. I've been working out the sequence of events from when the guys in the "company" first purchased the plane to when the plane was hauled out of the lake and the Feds went after those they thought were involved.
As I read some of the posts on the forum as well as publications such as magazine and newspaper articles, it becomes very clear that everyone has a snippet of the event, but not always a good recollection of what happened first, second, and third. I think that's because it wasn't important back then.
Guys like Sidmo would have a field day if the time line didn't make sense or wasn't accurate.
I've been working with Glisky's wife Pam on just these issues.
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C4/1971
Trad climber
Depends on the day...
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Sep 17, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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Miss Jack Dorn....and damn, he looked like the guy I knew In Serenity Crack. That smile....
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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Sep 29, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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Licky, you're so wrong in your last post - I wouldn't care about the timeline being off, you can write disclaimers and alert the reader that you're reconstructing the events as well as you can. You're asking people to remember details of events way in their past that happened at a time that they had lots of weed, of course the details will overlap one another and become confused. The readers will get that, and forgive you for some factual errors as long as you bring them into the process of deciphering the history. What my concern was simply that you didn't restrict your book's perspective to information gleaned only from rockjocks and aviatonfreaks. I thought it might be fun and enlightening to also consider some of the sociological effects that the plane had on our little community. I've been dismayed to discover that the scene is as gossipy and populated by small people with petty peeves and grudges as it was back in the day. Is it interesting that the plane was a this-or-that with certain aeronautical characteristics and boring that a modern-day gold rush occurred in a small community that enriched a sizable percentage of previously-destitute idealists whom had been sacrificing the normal comforts of American society in order to persue a dream? I simply felt that you were embracing much of the technical history while rejecting some of the life-changing effects that the bonanza had on real people. What guys did with their fortunes is key to the story in my opinion. You and others shot me down pretty well after I tried to stir the pot some, perhaps I did deserve some criticism but it wouldn't have killed you to bite your tongue a little as long as people were chiming in and providing information to your project for free. I still obviously check back on the thread out of curiousity, and will certianly throw you a few bucks for the finished book, but since I've more-or-less given up on caring about this project much I'd prefer not to have my motives or character questioned and maligned by people who identify themselves as timid topropers and other silly monikers in order to remain anonomous. Not that I care what someone thinks about me from the seventies, but just because people are entitled to their own opinions does not entitle them to their own facts. I was a hustler back then all right, but not in Boystown, Curry Village, Yosemite Valley or Park. I scalped tickets for a living between parkk service jobs, and i scalped them in LA and the Bay Area. I spent money lavishly in the park, and was generous with people I knew, before and after the largesse we were blessed with in '77. I was moderatly more well-off after the plane to be sure, and many people I knew were positively impacted more dramatically that I. That is what was interesting to me about the plane, then and now. If you don't share my interest in how the money affected a small community that had a disproportionate number of people living on the financial edge then so be it - but I think you're missing, if not THE point, certianly a point worth noting. I wish you luck Licky, despite how I might feel about some of your overly sensitive and judgemental threadposters.
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tonesfrommars
Trad climber
California
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Sep 29, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
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huh?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 29, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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Alexander...i know where you are coming from rj....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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The Gulag will do that to a guy...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 29, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
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I like the idea of the comic book version, sort of like theGilbert Shelton one about the 'merican revolution...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 29, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
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I'm actually fascinated by this idea and your take on it, Al! I don't know ho how this stuff is done, but it souncs like you, do. Good luck, I hope you really do this project! Im seeing it in sort of a Deltoro, kind of image...
BTW, i believe it was the 'The Golden Voyage of the FFFB's, a Mexican Odyssey'! It featured General Douglas Disaster, (retired) and Don Longjuan. I have it ether here in the garage, or in storage, I'll give a look, in a while.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 29, 2010 - 09:30pm PT
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Alex,
Never delete. Not for Rokjok, not for me, not for anybody.
Ha ha, unless you did it for yourself.
Zeebro
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 29, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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Not true Rokjok,
There is a give and take on supertopo that has it's own tempo and interest. I can't remember exactly what Mr. Sol said but he's not anywhere near the wild things that post here. When you delete a post in the middle of a thread it needs to be really bad. Even if his was then an apology would have done the trick- without a delete.
And by the way I enjoy your posts. Not all of them, of course, but I see you don't enjoy all of mine. Ha ha,
Take care,
Zander
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 30, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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Jack Dorn...wow. For what its worth, I was a good friend and climbing partner of his when he first showed up in the Valley. So long ago, but I still value the time we spent backing off just about everything we tried. I haven't thought about him for so long...seems like a dream. Often wondered what the real story of his demise was. I had no idea that the "crash bud" story was still alive. I guess I've been out of touch for about....forever.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 30, 2010 - 12:26am PT
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How about the ones rox deleted, Zee?
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 30, 2010 - 10:23am PT
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Yeah Jaybro, he should have left them IMHO. Think about it before you post something, not after. Taco treads have an ebb and flow to them that I enjoy. Sometimes we all post things we regret. It's OK, let it ride. Jay, I don't want to interupt this thread further so thats all I will say.
Z
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 30, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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I'm with you z!
on topic, as a Berkeley local when this was happening, did you hear about this thing when it was 'going down"?
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2010 - 01:25am PT
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Sidmo...you are like a bad burrito...you just keep coming back. How many time do I have to explain to you that this event/story/book isn't about you or what you can and can't remember. There have been plenty of people outside the climbing community (Park employees, Rangers, hotel operators outside of the Park) that have a very good memory about the event.
Once again, there are people that have been following this type of plane for over forty years. All have wondered what happened to the seventeenth model. Do you the climber of the seventees need to wonder about this? Probably not. How about Hollywood's take on why they used money instead of dope in the story? How about the level of investigation that went on surrounding Jack Dorn's death? What did his family hear and know? How did this event further the careers of those that came down with their share of the stash not to mention Park Rangers and their take. Friends of the two pilots only heard of the plane crash, none knew of what they were doing. Sabatoge of the plane to make it crash? Now there is a story and its one that I'm deeply involved in researching.
Your posts remind me of Chainsaw in the early days of my research here. So Sidmo...please...go play in another sandbox...I'll not say this a third time.
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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OUCH! go play in another sandbox? why, so Timid-ity won't kick anymore sand in my face or you won't smell burrito-farts? you guys are so pompous and full of yourselves you crack me up - lighten up dudes, and stop flaming - concentrate, concentrate - try to remember all that we forgot . . .
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
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Maybe Sidmo would like to meet to expound further on his thoughts?
It would make for interesting reading I'm sure
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 13, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
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Is the book finished yet?
How many volumes will there be?
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 09:49pm PT
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Yes, the book is finished, it is published, it is available through Amazon.com...Sidmo is my agent and you can contact him for purchase at a ST discount.
NOT
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
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Licky,
I wasn't sure that I would buy a copy but I think I will now just to
do my part to ease all the gratuitous grief you've gotten here.
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