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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
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Cruz is the one guy who I don't like. He is a politician through and through.
To me, he is a Republican Obama. He shows no ability to work with opponents, no ability to compromise, but an unhealthy readiness to make a big show that will produce nothing but discord. That's why the Tea Party - with largely the same values - loves him.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
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John, where exactly has Obama not compromised? I mean I appreciate your status as the voice of reason given the tone of most of your conservative compatriots on the Taco, but sometimes you say things that are a little coocoo. You can't compromise with people whose ultimate demand that you have never had been elected. One of Obama's biggest failures in practice was that he tried to be the great uniter so he persistently started negotiating from an already compromised position, expecting that the public would see how reasonable he was being. This only ever drove Republicans further to the right. Obama is anything but an unyielding champion of liberalism. I understand you don't agree with him..but that's different than "not compromising." Obama and Boehner worked out numerous bargains...they were all sunk by Freedom Caucus.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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Where has he compromised with Republicans? I could argue that Republicans' exclusion from the ACA negotiations was more the product of Pelosi ("Elections have consequences.") and Reid, but Obama did nothing to include them. He certainly has done nothing since.
More importantly, his rhetoric often pours gasoline on the flames. You don't obtain compromise by villifying the other side, and then insisting they surrender, yet that's what he's done all too often. Where, exactly, has he been conciliatory to his political opposition? It seems, to this admittedly very partial observer, that Obama never misses a chance to demonize his opposition. To me, the most egregious were his lies about the majority opinion in Citizens United in the State of the Union address, knowing that the Supreme Court justices have no ability to defend themselves. That was bullying plain and simple, and not actions designed to lead to dialog, much less compromise.
The immigration issues have an awful lot of Republicans in favor of immigration reform that allows those here illegally a path to legal status, but his executive order cut the floor out from under those that were potential supporters.
As was pointed out earlier, when Bill Clinton's leftish agenda lost the House and Senate to Republicans, he steered a more moderate course. When Obama's leftish agenda did the same, he doubled down on his leftward tilt. Again, you can't insist on unconditional surrender and then complain when your opponents continue the fight.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
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5 Ways Obama Tries to Work With Republicans and is Rejected
That's pretty funny. Health care: "President listens to Republicans." It's a curious definition of "listens," considering their total exclusion fromthe bill's drafting and the inability of the bill to attract a single Republican vote.
"Obama compromises on fiscal cliff [2013]" by raising the threshold of tax hikes to $400,000.00, rather than the $250,000 that he wanted. This looks like a true compromise. Republicans wanted no tax hikes, and held the majoirty in the tax-writing chamber of Congress, yet the tax hikes still took place. Of course, this not only undercuts my statement about Obama's inability to compromise, but it undercuts the arguments that the Republicans won't compromise with him. Oh, well.
"Obama compromises on 2010 budget deal." That was a compromise with himself. he didn't want the Bush tax cuts to continue, but his policy advisors told him the damage that would do to the economy if he followed through on what he wanted to do. I doubt he would have received enough votes from Democrats to pass a tax hike then.
"Obama keeps Gates as Secretary of Defense." Who else did he have in mind?
"Obama meets with pro-life and pro-choice advocates." And what has he offered pro-life advocates as a result of that meeting. For that matter, is this solely a Democrat/Republican controversy?
Yes, I do consider the Freedom Caucus at least as obstructionist of compromise as the President, maybe more so because they purport to be on my side. Still, that's rather weak sauce for showing a President with the ability to compromise with the opposition, particularly when compared to his predecessors.
John
Edit: The Media Matters article on false equivalence in the blame for the sutdown is even more specious, but then what should I expect from an overtly partisan commentary? Should I counter with posts from the Daily Signal?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
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He certainly has done nothing since.
wait hold on it's all about the environment and climate change..
edit:
Should I counter with posts from the Daily Signal?
lol
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Jorroh
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
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"Where has he compromised with Republicans?"
Lets start with Obamacare...do you think there is a single Democrat that would have chosen as their first option an approach to health care developed by the Heritage foundation, first implemented by a Republican Governor, where health care remained, for most people, mediated by insurance companies? With no public option.
Are you really trying to say that that wasn't a compromise?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
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John, where exactly has Obama not compromised?
He set the tone early on.
President Obama listened to Republican gripes about his stimulus package during a meeting with congressional leaders Friday morning - but he also left no doubt about who's in charge of these negotiations. "I won," Obama noted matter-of-factly, according to sources familiar with the conversation.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2009/01/obama-to-gop-i-won-017862#ixzz3uWfDOEx4
If Obamacare was a compromise, what did Obama and the Dems get out of the deal?
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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Revisionist history is a conservative's best friend.
The fact is 60% of republicans feel betrayed because their leadership isn't conservative ENOUGH. They think Mitch McConnell is a liberal. Day 1 his goal was to defeat any initiative proposed by the president.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
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Revisionist history is a conservative's best friend.
What are you referring to?
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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Your hypothesis that the president set the tone early on for non-cooperation. By the way, the liberal wing of his party faults him for being too conciliatory.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
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The azz hole set the putrid tone before even swearing in in 2009 when his transition team let slip their consideration that the biggest threat facing their amerika was what they defined as right wing extremists (basically anyone in disagreement with any of his agenda as you nutcases demonstrate daily) and returning vets. The turd basically declared war on the majority of the population of traditional America.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Dec 16, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
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Hypothesis?
You mean he didn't snub the Republicans... three days after taking office... over the most significant legislation of his first year?
That explains why all the House Republicans and nearly all of the Senate Republicans voted against the 2009 stimulus bill. I mean... it was a compromise.
Speaking of revisionism, it's interesting to see how you guys claim Obama compromised on major legistion, where the Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.
We must have different definitions of the term compromise.
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Jorroh
climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 03:05pm PT
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"If Obamacare was a compromise, what did Obama and the Dems get out of the deal?"
They got to expand healthcare coverage.
They were able to slap insurance companies with a few consumer protections to make them actually provide the coverage that their customers were paying for.
They were able to try various approaches, both nationally and at the state level, whose goal was to bend the cost curve of health care.
To name a couple.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
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don't think California is ready to compete with Germany for emissions. We have too many diesel VWs for one thing. :) And to be frank, I do NOT trust the Germans to self-report the truth of their emissions, the lying f*#ks.
Hah. I hear ya, but part of the California emissions figures were based on the vw cheating, so it doesn't help the numbers.
But Germany isn't out of line with the rest of the EU.
As to the deserts and such, I'm not sure how they add to CO2 emmisions. Roads, maybe. But that's a decision CA made in the thirties when they dismantled the largest transit systems in the world.
As an aside, the largest per capita emissions in the USA are in Wyoming. New York is the lowest.
Oregon is about what California is. Part of this states problem is that the EPA thresholds don't kick in to require cleaner fuels. Oregon has no refineries, so they used to send poor quality fuels with Benzene in it here and save the good stuff for California and the Seattle area where EPA limits for that pollutant were in effect.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
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You mean he didn't snub the Republicans... three days after taking office... over the most significant legislation of his first year?
You are making crap up.
There was no Obama veto in the first three days. Congress didn't have the votes.
There were only two vetos in the first term. One was to veto the tea party idiot continuing budgetst that forced the tea party to actually vote a budget. That was sustained in the house. The second was to veto an interstate commerce limit, also sustained in the house.
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Norton
Social climber
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Dec 16, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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why do you find it necessary to LIE to try real hard to make a political point?
a lie is when you say something that is simply not true
so why did you lie?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 16, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
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Yea right like any R was ever going to vote for ACA regardless of how much Dems tried to comprise. Besides having a chance to "break" Obama,any R that voted for health care was the walking dead. Maybe literally given all the Tea Party anger.
Dems should have pushed it through faster before they lost the Ted Kennedy seat.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 16, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
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All I can say is there must be something about Wasilla, AK that induces ignorance. Such a pretty place, too.
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